G-R.net Logic Problem Challenge II

[RCPlanes59]

Spoilers: I am said third person. I've been really busy with my new job so I haven't had a chance to look at the puzzle in almost a week.

...But I will solve it.

...Eventually.

[JokerFan]

How do you know you are the third person?  Four people have a perfect record, and I was the second person, so only 1 of the 4 people currently still have a perfect record.

[BRB_TheFireball]

How do you know you are the third person?

Well, RC is the only other person besides you and Doughnut who has replied to this thread since I first posted the current puzzle, so it should be safe to assume that he is "the third person".

[RCPlanes59]

Entering what is literally my eleventh hour. I have a feeling this is going to go unsolved unless I pull out a miracle or take off of work tomorrow.

[RCPlanes59]

My reaction to finishing the puzzle:

[BRB_TheFireball]

OK, I got my three correct solutions, so I'm gonna go ahead and end this puzzle.

Though this was a hard puzzle, my extra hint should have been enough for all of the connections to fall in place.  Here's what my hint would give us:

Albertson [either brass bed or designer handbag (Clue 7)] isn't Esteban [either Chisholm or laptop computer (Clue 2), so couldn't be placed], Lana [either Noel or lithograph (Clue 2), so couldn't be placed], Holly [either Jumpp or barbecue (Clue 5), so couldn't be placed], or Morris [either Gambini or dance lessons (Clue 6), so couldn't be placed]; Albertson is either Belinda or DeAndre.  Since Belinda and DeAndre are Richland and Float Your Boat (Clue 4), Albertson is Float Your Boat.  Therefore, Albertson is business management (only one possible in Clue 1) and thus cannot be Belinda (Clue 6).  Therefore, DeAndre is Albertson and Belinda is Richland.

Once you got there, the rest should've been smooth sailing:

Belinda Richland isn't Float Your Boat [DeAndre (above)], Break the Bank (Clue 4), Identity Crisis, Roundabout (Clue 6), or Three's a Crowd [either Noel or lithograph (Clue 2), so would be lithograph, which isn't possible (Clue 3)]; she is Short Circuit, so isn't barbecue, laptop (Clue 1), bed, lithograph (Clue 3), or dance lessons [either Morris or French (Clue 6), which isn't possible].  Belinda is handbag, so DeAndre Albertson is bed.  Dance isn't Float Your Boat, Short Circuit (above), Identity Crisis, Three's a Crowd (Clue 3), or Break the Bank (Clue 5); it's Roundabout and cannot be Morris (Clue 4), so is French.  Therefore, Morris is Gambini.  Morris Gambini isn't Float Your Boat, Roundabout, Short Circuit (above), Three's a Crowd [would be lithograph (Clue 2), so couldn't be placed (Clue 1)], or Break the Bank {couldn't be business, French [above], astronomy, or kinesiology [Clue 5], so would be either law or mathematics, but couldn't be bed, dance, handbag [above], lithograph [either Lana or Three's a Crowd (Clue 2), so couldn't be placed], barbecue [either Holly or kinesiology (Clue 5), so couldn't be placed], or laptop [Clue 7], so couldn't be placed}; Morris is Identity Crisis, so isn't laptop (Clue 7) or lithograph (Clue 2).  Morris is barbecue, so is kinesiology (Clue 5).  Therefore, Holly is Jumpp.  Laptop isn't business, French, kinesiology (above), law, or mathematics (Clue 7); it's astronomy, so Esteban is Chisholm (Clue 2).  Therefore, Lana is Noel (only surname left) and Three's a Crowd is lithograph (Clue 2).  Therefore, Break the Bank is laptop (only prize left), so is Holly Jumpp (Clue 5).  2007 [earliest (intro), either Esteban or Holly (Clue 1)] isn't Holly [Break the Bank (Clue 4)]; it's Esteban, so Lana Noel is 2008 (Clue 1).  Lana isn't Three's a Crowd (Clue 2); she's Roundabout, so Morris is 2010 [no 2006 (above, Clue 4)] and Esteban is Three's a Crowd (only game left).  2012 [latest (intro)] isn't Belinda [no 2013 (Clue 4)] or DeAndre [no 2014 (Clue 7)]; it's Holly [Break the Bank (above)], so Belinda is 2011 (Clue 4).  DeAndre is 2009 (only year left), so 2011 isn't law (Clue 7); it's mathematics, so 2007 is law (only major left).

Summary
2007, Esteban Chisholm, law, lithograph, Three's a Crowd
2008, Lana Noel, French, dance lessons, Roundabout
2009, DeAndre Albertson, business management, brass bed, Float Your Boat
2010, Morris Gambini, kinesiology, barbecue, Identity Crisis
2011, Belinda Richland, mathematics, designer handbag, Short Circuit
2012, Holly Jumpp, astronomy, laptop computer, Break the Bank

As you might have guessed already, the three winners for this puzzle were:

Doughnut (fastest player)
JokerFan
RCPlanes59

Doughnut and RC go 4-for-4... but what will happen on the final puzzle?

FIND OUT TOMORROW!  We're out of time for today.  Goodbye! *walks off stage as closing theme plays*

[JohnHolder]

Nice one. I was almost completely stumped - I got one-sixth of the way there. And so my streak ends. WTG to the 4-for-4 people!

[JokerFan]

Looking at the solution provided, I am having trouble figuring out how Morris Gambini did not play Break the Bank.
I know I am one of only three to give the correct solution, but I don't remember how I figured it out, so I looked at the solution but I found it confusing.  I do have notes that I typed but there are only partial and I am trying to make them complete.

There seems to be something contradictory

Morris Gambini isn't...Break the Bank {couldn't be business, French [above], astronomy, or kinesiology

To me, it looks like it's saying Morris isn't kinesiology, which he is, and that his own major could be either law or math.  Are we suddenly talking about someone other than Morris?

[BRB_TheFireball]

There seems to be something contradictory... To me, it looks like it's saying Morris isn't kinesiology, which he is, and that his own major could be either law or math.  Are we suddenly talking about someone other than Morris?

The summary is saying that if Morris played Break the Bank, then he couldn't be kinesiology.  Clue 5 outright stated that the kinesiology student did not play Break the Bank.

[JokerFan]

The summary is saying that if Morris played Break the Bank, then he couldn't be kinesiology.  Clue 5 outright stated that the kinesiology student did not play Break the Bank.

Okay, in that case, it is assuming we already know Morris is a kinesiology student.  How do we know that?  Was it in the part of the summary beginning with "Morris Gambini isn't Float Your Boat, Roundabout..."?

I believe the reason I am confused is because several connections seem to be made using only one sentence, basically like an “embedded” format (to think about it in programming terms) rather than separate them out.  I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with presenting it the way it is; I just personally happen to find another way easier.

Morris Gambini isn't...Break the Bank {couldn't be business, French [above], astronomy*, or kinesiology [Clue 5], so would be either law or mathematics,

*What are you saying "can't" be astronomy?  Morris or Break the Bank?  (Yes, I know Break the Bank is astronomy, but at this time, you could just be saying it to prove that if someone thinks like that, they will reach an impossibility.)  If Morris, then how do we know this?  Has then been proven earlier in the summary, is the next part of the summary proving this, or is this just testing one of the guesses?

[BRB_TheFireball]

Morris Gambini isn't...Break the Bank {couldn't be business, French [above], astronomy*, or kinesiology [Clue 5], so would be either law or mathematics,

*What are you saying "can't" be astronomy?  Morris or Break the Bank?  (Yes, I know Break the Bank is astronomy, but at this time, you could just be saying it to prove that if someone thinks like that, they will reach an impossibility.)  If Morris, then how do we know this?  Has then been proven earlier in the summary, is the next part of the summary proving this, or is this just testing one of the guesses?

The last sentence of Clue 5 explains why Morris Gambini can't be both astronomy and Break the Bank:  "If the astronomy student played Break the Bank, then he or she is surnamed Jumpp."  By the time we get around to the explanation regarding this clue, Morris' surname is already proved to be Gambini.  So that part of the clue is simply there as a part of the circuitous way to prove that Morris isn't Break the Bank.

[JokerFan]

The last sentence of Clue 5 explains why Morris Gambini can't be both astronomy and Break the Bank:  "If the astronomy student played Break the Bank, then he or she is surnamed Jumpp."  By the time we get around to the explanation regarding this clue, Morris' surname is already proved to be Gambini.  So that part of the clue is simply there as a part of the circuitous way to prove that Morris isn't Break the Bank.

(I got an error message after typing a long post and didn't copy it, so I'm trying to remember what I wrote--and possibly shorten it.)
How do we know Morris is the kinesiology student?
Clue 5 states that "If the astronomy student played Break the Bank, then he or she is surnamed Jumpp", but that doesn't mean Morris can't be either the astronomy student or play Break the Bank?
Another part of Clue 5 states "the kinesiology student was not the person who played Break the Bank", so if Morris is the kinesiology student, he didn't play Break the Bank.  However, I fail to see where it is stated whether or not Morris is the kinesiology student.

[BRB_TheFireball]

Hmmm, my clarifications don't seem to make the summary any clearer.  Now that I'm home and not behind an office computer, I have time to explain line by line why Morris Gambini can't be Break the Bank.

Break the Bank can't be business management because we established earlier in the puzzle that DeAndre Albertson (Float Your Boat) is business management.

Break the Bank can't be French because we established earlier in the puzzle that Roundabout is French.

Break the Bank can't be astronomy because Clue 5 states that if Break the Bank were astronomy, then it would be Jumpp.  Obviously, Break the Bank can't be both Gambini and Jumpp.

Break the Bank can't be kinesiology because Clue 5 also states that they don't match.

After eliminating four majors, we would see that a Morris/Break the Bank match would have to match up with either law or mathematics.  But now try to put a prize with either Morris/Break the Bank/law or Morris/Break the Bank/mathematics.

Regardless of which major you try:

Morris/Break the Bank can't be barbecue because Clue 5 states that either Holly or kinesiology is barbecue.  (Even though it's established later that Morris is kinesiology and barbecue, it's irrelevant at this point because Morris plus Break the Bank can't be kinesiology.  Morris plus Break the Bank would have to be either law or mathematics.)

Morris/Break the Bank can't be brass bed because we established earlier in the puzzle that DeAndre is brass bed.

Morris/Break the Bank can't be dance lessons because Clue 6 states that Morris and dance lessons are two different people.

Morris/Break the Bank can't be designer handbag because we established earlier in the puzzle that Belinda is designer handbag.

Morris/Break the Bank can't be laptop because Clue 7 states that laptop is neither law nor mathematics.

Morris/Break the Bank can't be lithograph because Clue 2 states that either Lana or Three's a Crowd is lithograph.

Since none of the prizes can be matched up with Morris/Break the Bank, Morris can't possibly be Break the Bank.

I don't know if that helps... but it is what it is.

[JokerFan]

Thanks for explaining it that way!  It was a big help!  I now understand how this conclusion was reached.

[BRB_TheFireball]

Since you mentioned assumptions earlier, allow me to read a passage from the introduction to Dell Logic Puzzles magazine:

Another way to get unstuck--though it's more work--is to make an assumption.  Assume, say, that Alfred is Mr. Greene, and see where that leads.  (Make up a second solving grid on a piece of scratch paper for this.  Then if your assumption turns out to be wrong, you can go back to your original grid.)  If you end up with a contradiction, you know Alfred isn't Mr. Greene after all.  And if you end up with a complete answer with no contradictions, you've just solved the puzzle!  Sometimes the only way to solve a tough five-star puzzle is by making and disproving assumptions.

That section of the summary in question was based on the assumption "if Morris played Break the Bank, then..."  And since we ended up with a contradiction when we got to putting a prize with that assumption, then the assumption was disproved.

I know everybody wants that "tough five-star puzzle" that I've been keeping under wraps all this time.  Well, you don't have to wait much longer.  I'm gonna start typing it up in this thread right now.