Author Topic: Reviewing the Staff with Honesty: October/November 2015  (Read 4469 times)

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Offline SamJ93

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Re: Reviewing the Staff with Honesty: October/November 2015
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2015, 11:29:29 AM »
Frequent lurker, occasional poster chiming in, if I may...

It boils down to tone and communication, both of which I believe missed the mark here. Torgo said "until you users can get your act together..." as if it was this mass epidemic of trolling, rather than just one rogue user causing a headache. Knowing Torgo's style of humor, I know it was probably intended to be a joke, but that's really not how it came off in this instance.

It also obscured the real reason for the locking of the thread-a decision which was probably a good one. However, this wasn't communicated to the user base until after the fact, leaving a lot of people confused--and the message seemingly blaming the entire user base for one troll's actions certainly didn't help at all.

Torgo, I know these recaps are a labor of love for you, and I enjoy reading them. You had complained in your above post about "piling on" and personal attacks, so I hope that this post is more in the spirit of what this thread was originally intended to be--civil and constructive criticism of the way the mods do things, and suggestions for improvement.

Thank you for your time. I'll go back into lurk mode now.

Offline PatrickRox80

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Re: Reviewing the Staff with Honesty: October/November 2015
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2015, 01:03:10 PM »
Okay, this has gone far enough. If I come across as ranting, I apologize in advance.

Your passive aggressive nature does not suit you.

...

This is not a "criticism for the mods" thread. This is a "***** about Torgo" thread, and I don't like it.

Recap is up.

Relax.

At least I get my late results out within 24 hours of the show airing. You took a whole weekend and continuously have someone else handle your dirty work. I would focus on making unfunny collusion references and holding vendettas against successful FPG players than trying to come at me with some hypocritical shade.

Torgo, I know you do a great job with the recapping but the intent of these comments leaves much to be desired. Recapping for the show is one thing but BRB (and whoever you're accusing of doing his work for him) has to analyze scores of dozens of members for FPG. Everyone here has lives and you came across as an impatient member waiting to see how well he did. It's bad enough that you chose to lock an entire thread all because of one troll but to take it as a personal attack does nothing defend your status as a mod. I don't remember Joe Capitano being this belligerent when he was doing the recaps.

In Torgo's defense, I did side with him during the whole "Non-Readout Day" issue. Prizes also took some of our comments as a personal insult.

Please read my original post first before you attack me. Rather surprised at this reaction, not because of the no readouts again, but comprehension concerns.

This and her defense of said action came completely out of the blue. At first, she said the Non-Readout Day wouldn't happen again but then she revealed that Chelsea (whom I didn't expect to be behind this sort of thing at all) decided on doing it the day before the next show airs. It was something that they along with Guint decided on behind closed doors. When the criticism ensued, Prizes ignored it and she, Chelsea and Guint went on with what they decided on anyway. As I said in that thread, it's not the staff wanting something different for a day that bugs me. It's the decision to do so with very little time for members to see for themselves, rendering them helpless in the discussion.

If we're going to have the moderators call out members for their honesty, then what's the point in having this thread?

Offline Guint

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Re: Reviewing the Staff with Honesty: October/November 2015
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2015, 01:23:56 PM »
I had nothing to do with the creation of no-readout day. I knew about it, but I also don't care enough about this site to really do anything about it, or support it, or whatever.

How about YOU find out who actually does what around here before you start attacking people willy-nilly for stuff they didn't do?
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Offline GuyWithFace

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Re: Reviewing the Staff with Honesty: October/November 2015
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2015, 02:51:32 PM »
Pardon my language, but I do believe we all need to calm the f*** down. :lol:

I simply cannot frequent Golden-Road.net 24/7, and recaps are not that high a priority of mine. (If you think they should be, you really need to re-evaluate your life.)
I do not believe the recaps should be a high priority, no. I admit I did not know the entire story, which in turn is because I do not frequent this forum as much as I used to, coupled with my occasionally erratic sleeping schedule. I was not attacking you, sir, but rather (primarily) your comment that appeared to be punishing the entire site for the actions of a (since confirmed) troll.

This is not a "criticism for the mods" thread. This is a "***** about Torgo" thread, and I don't like it.
...You are the first moderator who had gotten criticism in this thread, sir.

I had nothing to do with the creation of no-readout day. I knew about it, but I also don't care enough about this site to really do anything about it, or support it, or whatever.

How about YOU find out who actually does what around here before you start attacking people willy-nilly for stuff they didn't do?
Be that as it may, a mistake such as that does not invalidate his points.

I had thought we were well past the sniping, mean-spirited jabbing, and overall fighting, particularly given how an overabundance of it nearly destroyed this place three years ago. And even so, this is Christmastime -- the time of the year when (from my experience) people tend to be happier.

We have all made mistakes in the past, and we shall very likely continue to do so. Continuing to bring them up does nothing but harm relationships going forward. Can we just let things go, bury our respective hatchets, and be at peace?

...Please?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 02:58:05 PM by GuyWithFace »
The above is my opinion and mine alone.

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Offline PatrickRox80

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Re: Reviewing the Staff with Honesty: October/November 2015
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2015, 05:44:05 PM »
I had nothing to do with the creation of no-readout day. I knew about it, but I also don't care enough about this site to really do anything about it, or support it, or whatever.

How about YOU find out who actually does what around here before you start attacking people willy-nilly for stuff they didn't do?

While I do apologize for taking your role out of context (your idea of a future date I did and still do agree with), my original point still stands. It could have been handled a lot better.

For now what's past is passed. We all are only human and none of us are perfect.

Offline thepriceis_J

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Re: Reviewing the Staff with Honesty: October/November 2015
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2015, 07:40:39 PM »
Torgo, I know you do a great job with the recapping but the intent of these comments leaves much to be desired. Recapping for the show is one thing but BRB (and whoever you're accusing of doing his work for him) has to analyze scores of dozens of members for FPG. Everyone here has lives and you came across as an impatient member waiting to see how well he did. It's bad enough that you chose to lock an entire thread all because of one troll but to take it as a personal attack does nothing defend your status as a mod. I don't remember Joe Capitano being this belligerent when he was doing the recaps.
Don't think it's fair to criticize Torgo on that last post he made. BRB was the one who had no need to create such a bitingly sarcastic post.

I'll stand by the locking since inaway was still running rampant at the time. Yes, it was one troll, but for as much trouble as he was causing and the lack of recap at the time, I understand not giving him another source for him to espouse his troll-speech. I also agree with his reasoning in that there have been times when Adam posted a recap thread early with no recap due to previous obligations and another mod would unlock it later in the day. That certainly could've happened.

However, I'll agree that clearer communication from Torgo could've gone a long way to avoid this and hopefully we'll move on.
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Offline Prizes

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Re: Reviewing the Staff with Honesty: October/November 2015
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2015, 07:32:53 AM »
I don't remember Joe Capitano being this belligerent when he was doing the recaps.

Excuse me, what? This phrasing is silly and you know it. Joe Capitano's one defining trait as recapper was belligerence.


In Torgo's defense, I did side with him during the whole "Non-Readout Day" issue. Prizes also took some of our comments as a personal insult.

In your quote of me, note that I mention a personal attack, which does not mean insult. It means an attack one's character, as in an ad hominem attack, literally translating as to the person. I was disappointed in the page's reading comprehension, not insulted. The two statements can overlap, but that wasn't the case.

This and her defense of said action came completely out of the blue. At first, she said the Non-Readout Day wouldn't happen again but then she revealed that Chelsea (whom I didn't expect to be behind this sort of thing at all) decided on doing it the day before the next show airs. It was something that they -inaccuracy removed- decided on behind closed doors.

Defense of such action came about because of Chelsea's work schedule, which often makes it hard for her to be in the chat. Also, these facts/instances aren't aligned properly, regardless of external circumstances. I do feel bad about the first no-readout day because it was on such short notice, the night before. However, the second was decided a good 30 hours beforehand. I frankly don't think this kind of thing needs more than a mention a few hours beforehand, if that, and that's only because of Torgo, who uses said readouts to form the recap. Because of the previously unknown issues this caused, it was deemed in the best interest of Torgo to have any sort of warning that would allow him to prepare adequately.

These were unknown for a reason you're actually likely pretty well antiquated with: The chat never used to do readouts, and as such, recaps never followed them. The latter of course, is my mistake, on the first iteration. In contrast, however, the former doesn't require notice, at all. Why does the site even need to be told that it will be a no-readout day, either time? There is no reason for it. Change and innovation happens, oftentimes with less notice than this. That's life.

I never stated the reason why I wanted this, did I? Well, here goes. This site quality from many members, has really taped off, as of late. The chat no longer has valid discussion beyond yay, aw, and a bunch of gimmicks.

I'm not saying chat or this pagehas to have the solemnity of a church, I'm just saying I want better quality in the chat, and subsequently, the forum itself, and in show discussion. In an effort to improve that, I wanted to see if by removing the culprit of distractions, and easy outs to discussion. It's why I have that Steve Gavazzi quote in my signature. Posts lack the same quality on the whole they once had. If it was sustainable before, why can't it happen again? With Steve, CU, Alfonzo, Torgo, Army, Chelsea, myself, among others, that's the site we're trying to create. That will not be changing. Quality has always been the main goal of any page I associate with, be it as a contributing member, moderator, or administrator. Buy a Vowel is a good example of what I mean, in terms of quality of posters. Do I want all to agree with me? It'd be nice, but boring, especially in a world of nearly seven billion living individuals. Not everyone is going to agree, so long as there is solid discussion, points of contrast, and, in a broad meaning of the term, learning. Right now, the vast majority of this page lacks any of those, not to mention some intangibles, such as humor.

Now, pray tell, did my small-scale experiment it work? No. I was wrong, I admit that. But the idea at least warranted consideration. Chelsea liked it because it was something new and different, and wanted to see that first-hand. Other than Torgo and the recap, which is something I genuinely felt bad about, what did anybody have to lose for that one show? Sticking with one, because one was purely experimental, and if we can't at least try something new here, once, than this place is much more stuck in the past and in its ideals than thought possible. In that sense, perhaps, the original trial was getting a young child to try a vegetable: It may not be pleasant, there's likely disagreement, but it's for the growth and health of the child or site, no matter how small.

As for the closed door bit, yep. No question. Some decisions about staffing, moderating, etc. are going to be autonomous of the general page. That's the nature of online forums. We're not going to go around asking every active member on the page if such and such a member should be banned from the chatroom, before a decision is reached, as your statement implies. For one, it is unnecessary, and two it would take any sort of control of the page out of those who have been proven trustworthy to do so. Of course, the latter, with respect to asking every member, is absolutely hypothetical, since you didn't present an argument near anything like that, lest I be accused of a strawman argument on that front.

When the criticism ensued, Prizes ignored it and she [and] Chelsea -inaccuracy removed- went on with what they decided on anyway. As I said in that thread, it's not the staff wanting something different for a day that bugs me. It's the decision to do so with very little time for members to see for themselves, rendering them helpless in the discussion.

This quote tells me you didn't read the rest of the thread where you linked my feelings of feeling 'insulted', honestly, given the following:

No-readout day returning for Monday's show is 100% me. After getting both compliments and complaints about the first one, I wanted to see another play out, this one in person. Figured while the issue was still fresh. Didn't want time to elapse and "oh, hey, boom here it is again".  If there's criticism, I wanna hear it. If there's compliments or praise, I want to hear it.

The reason I'm so intrigued by the idea is it's the first *new* thing that's been tried around here in a while, and I like new ideas.

The "no readout" idea was an interesting one, remembering how the readout started in the first place, and I wanted to see it in it's actual implementation. 

Furthermore, Guint and I originally had a collusive effort to do the next one around, perhaps on, the Thanksgiving show, intentionally timed for when we calculated the next date chat would be at near-peak population. If you want to be okay with that, you can't thank just him, and blame me in the process! Joint effort on the next scheduling deal.

Chelsea's idea to come in just for that was a surprise, and not only did I not want to turn her down, I did not know the next time she'd be available to do so. When you work with someone who has a limited schedule time, you do your best to work with their schedule; especially if they are your superior. This was done out of courtesy, quite simply.

Please refrain from casting retaliation stones, until you know who shot them. I maintain that, other than Torgo, nobody stands to lose anything with no warning of such an effort in the future. Of course, it's only fair to ask: Why and what would you, both as an individual and speaking for the forum members on the whole, stand to benefit from more advance notice of such an event?

Before I make any decision regarding an action on a given page, I always consider five factors, in this order, but not of this importance. One: How do I, as an individual, benefit or become affected from this decision? If it it positive and/or with good affection, go to number two: How does my staff, on the whole, benefit or become other affected by this decision? If it it positive and/or with good affection, go to number three: How do the (non-staff) members of this page, on the whole, benefit or become other affected by this decision? If it it positive and/or with good affection, go to number four: How are visitors (outsiders) impacted, benefitted, harmed or affected by this decision? If it turns out okay, it's the last step: How do these elements apply to long term outcomes and to its similar-interest based communities, of individuals you want coming to the page? If all are succeeded, the action is taken. Not that you disputed this, but if you look at the no-readout plan, it meets all of these goals, on various levels.

Obviously, it isn't totally this simple, given short term, long term outcomes, not to mention the benefits of alienating one of the aforementioned groups. Besides, some of that is trade secrets for how to run any kind of successful business!

If we're going to have the moderators call out members for their honesty, then what's the point in having this thread?

Honesty? Care to explain? Genuinely unsure of what you mean specifically in this case, as I cannot accurately address these concerns at this time.

As for calling people out for these actions, while I appreciate the constructive criticism directed towards me, I'd like to see some additional potential solutions in there as well. It's what we have to do as staff for a multitude of factors, after all! After all, this is the thread where you get to be the mods, and to some degree, show us what kind of moderator you would be. In defense of Kevin though, he offered the idea about waiting. This is one I can agree with, as it was the intended original plan. Keep them coming!

One thing I am not happy about with though, is how much this thread has turned into biyotch about Torgo, from a few members, on the whole. Constructive criticism is fair, and I'd like to see more of it. Of course, there's some of that in here, it's certainly not every post. More specifically, JJ's done a nice job of doing just that.
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Offline GuyWithFace

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Re: Reviewing the Staff with Honesty: October/November 2015
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2015, 01:40:37 PM »
After all, this is the thread where you get to be the mods, and to some degree, show us what kind of moderator you would be.
...To which it seems that I would be a rather poor one, given my reaction to Torgo.

I apologize for my rashness, madam.
The above is my opinion and mine alone.

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Offline PayingTheRent

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Re: Reviewing the Staff with Honesty: October/November 2015
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2015, 06:58:55 PM »
Pardon my language, but I do believe we all need to calm the f*** down. :lol:

This is signature-worthy material. May I, sir? :P
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Offline PIR85

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Re: Reviewing the Staff with Honesty: October/November 2015
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2015, 08:00:51 PM »
The tone and mood is very hostile. I have been using the site for years. I used to be more active in commenting, and while I don't always contribute to discussion today, I check the threads and recaps on a daily basis. That said, the site has become very different. I am not blaming any one specifically; I'm just observing borderline aggressive behavior involving members and moderators, and it's actually kind of sad. We have real world problems out there, and coming to this site is a break from the daily grind. We shouldn't have to put up with personality conflicts on the boards. That's my two cents anyway.

Offline GuyWithFace

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Re: Reviewing the Staff with Honesty: October/November 2015
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2015, 09:11:23 PM »
This is signature-worthy material. May I, sir? :P
Oh, certainly. :-)
The above is my opinion and mine alone.

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Offline Wayoshi

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Re: Reviewing the Staff with Honesty: October/November 2015
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2015, 11:25:25 PM »
I have to say it: Fireball's absence is pretty inexcusable as a game host.

At this point I do not care if the absence is due to Torgo's blasting of the collusion fiasco or not... the fact he has let an entire week go by, leaving FPG up in the air and slowly dying out as the days go on, even putting this next one into doubt, is absurd. If some emergency happened, I'm sorry, but at least get on the Internet somewhere and tell someone (whammy007) the circumstances. There are no excuses at this point.
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Offline PatrickRox80

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Re: Reviewing the Staff with Honesty: October/November 2015
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2015, 11:29:35 PM »
I have to say it: Fireball's absence is pretty inexcusable as a game host.

At this point I do not care if the absence is due to Torgo's blasting of the collusion fiasco or not... the fact he has let an entire week go by, leaving FPG up in the air and slowly dying out as the days go on, even putting this next one into doubt, is absurd. If some emergency happened, I'm sorry, but at least get on the Internet somewhere and tell someone (whammy007) the circumstances. There are no excuses at this point.

The only reason I'd maybe give him a pass is because we're only a few days away from Christmas. Still, he should let us know in advance if he's got plans.

Now I know why our mods have no faith in this site anymore. Either nothing's getting done or they don't like how it's getting done.

Offline Roadgeek Adam

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Re: Reviewing the Staff with Honesty: October/November 2015
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2015, 11:44:21 PM »
I have to say it: Fireball's absence is pretty inexcusable as a game host.

At this point I do not care if the absence is due to Torgo's blasting of the collusion fiasco or not... the fact he has let an entire week go by, leaving FPG up in the air and slowly dying out as the days go on, even putting this next one into doubt, is absurd. If some emergency happened, I'm sorry, but at least get on the Internet somewhere and tell someone (whammy007) the circumstances. There are no excuses at this point.

I agree with you, except he's also vanished on Twitter as well. No tweets in 9 days; compared to 5 here. 
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Offline Schfifty

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Re: Reviewing the Staff with Honesty: October/November 2015
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2015, 11:48:42 PM »
I have to say it: Fireball's absence is pretty inexcusable as a game host.

At this point I do not care if the absence is due to Torgo's blasting of the collusion fiasco or not... the fact he has let an entire week go by, leaving FPG up in the air and slowly dying out as the days go on, even putting this next one into doubt, is absurd. If some emergency happened, I'm sorry, but at least get on the Internet somewhere and tell someone (whammy007) the circumstances. There are no excuses at this point.

It makes matters more difficult that Firey, Marc and John are the only moderators who can post new threads in the FPG board. Now, I don't know if this scenario has ever happened on the site before, but I agree - if a scheduled FPG game does not get posted, and whoever runs the game unexpectedly leaves and doesn't let the users know what's going on, then I think we need to do something about it. If at all possible, whammy007 could perhaps at least temporarily gain mod powers for the section since he's the stats keeper.

I agree with you, except he's also vanished on Twitter as well. No tweets in 9 days; compared to 5 here. 

I'm inclined to believe Firey had a family emergency or has a personal issue to take care of, but it's still odd nonetheless.
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