Author Topic: The past few days...  (Read 3796 times)

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Offline Marc

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The past few days...
« on: January 16, 2016, 01:02:12 AM »
I've been receiving some messages over the past few days indicating that the discussion on this site has gotten out of hand. From fighting in the FPG, to a CSS host "ragequitting", to trolling, to member belittlement (which has always been my pet peeve). It's time to step...no...slam on the breaks.

I understand that moderation on this site has been at a minimum, and I don't see that changing. This forum & the chat room both need to run on autopilot, with minimal supervision, and without the BS discussed above. If the members who choose to post here cannot make this happen, then the next step will be to shut down new discussion and largely keep the site up for the pictures and the FAQs.

My intent isn't to make this message sound like a threat. My intent is to remind you that I have always felt that it is YOU that drives the direction of this site. Please continue driving in a direction that represents the qualities that John and I have always tried to instill. Please don't drive the car into a wall. Just do the right thing, and treat each other with respect.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 01:04:13 AM by Chelsea »

Offline SamJ93

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Re: The past few days...
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2016, 02:20:08 PM »
Well said Marc.  Respect seems like such a simple concept in theory, yet sometimes we all struggle with it. 

I forget who said it awhile back, but as another member pointed out during a rather heated thread, watching and discussing TPiR is ultimately a distraction and an escape for all of us.  We already have enough to worry about in our day-to-day lives, why stir up drama over a harmless daytime game show?

Offline Hag

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Re: The past few days...
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2016, 02:56:43 PM »
I hate to see members leave under any circumstances, and especially longtime members, but I hope things are going to get better. TPIR is a game show, no doubt a special game show, but still just a game show. FPG and CCS are just for fun games that we play. Let's not fall apart on a site that should bring fans of TPIR together.
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Offline PriceBusterXL

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Re: The past few days...
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2016, 04:21:46 PM »
I totally concur. I came to this forum because there are members who share the love of TPIR as much as I do. I also really hate to see members, especially longtime ones, who decided to leave here because of God knows what. I even also agree that there is too much going on in the world right now for us to go ballistic on each other over a game show, even one such as TPIR.

At the end of the day, it's all about respect and that's something we need to show one another.


Offline PayingTheRent

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Re: The past few days...
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2016, 06:54:38 PM »
Never lose sight of the fact that each and every one of us is a real person communicating with other real people. I largely blame social media for the degrading of discussions across the Internet over the past several years. It's so easy to get into a flame war with a complete stranger over the stupidest of things, and that same attitude is finding its way into sites like these that are meant for leisure and sharing of ideas of common interest -- not furthering the spread of viral hate and ignorance.

On that same note, this isn't a "job." A job, for all intents and purposes, generally involves a certain amount of labor you get paid for. Having a role on this site, whether it be the host of a game or otherwise, is a virtual position designed to run said game. It may require some of your time, yes. But if you find yourself no longer able to meet your "obligations," then alert the admin(s) who put you in charge and let your players know you have to step down. Same goes if you need a break from the site or otherwise, although the quality of your experience here should never get to that point in the first place, for the reasons I stated above.

Marc, it's nice to see you speak on the issues that have been plaguing this site lately. I want to see this place turn back around and return to the great haven it once was for discussion related to The Price is Right. These little pockets of disrespect towards one another that exist between some of you have to stop. I was recently promoted to moderator, and if I see a thread begin to go south with members belittling each other, I won't hesitate to lock the thread and report what's going on directly to an admin who can take further actions, if necessary. It should never come to that, but we (as a whole) need to get our act together. We're better than the BS that's been on display lately. Far better.
Pardon my language, but I do believe we all need to calm the f*** down.

Offline sideshowPA

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Re: The past few days...
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2016, 11:03:51 PM »
I appreciate all of the positive vibes running through this thread, and hope we can continue a high level of positive discourse.  Name calling, or any other sort of demeaning activity, have no place here.

Here's my perspective:
I served for a good bit of time as CSS scorekeeper, then another longer stint as Host Your Own mod. I can't quote the amount of time and effort I put into these, nor does it really matter here. Some of the best times I had here were when me and goldenroadfanatic brought back the evening Live shows (and these really need to come back).  Each of these jobs were a labor of love. And while Payingtherent is certainly correct about his categorization of these jobs, it may be helpful to consider all sides.  I left this site for over a year, largely because it seemed that newer members felt comfortable attacking me, and nobody had my back.  I love participating in this site, and enjoy genuine conversations. But there is something to be said for loyalty and dedication, and I fear we've all done a nice job in disintegrating all aspects of longevity. 

Thanking Fireball for many years of service, instead of roasting him for one month of disagreement, would go a long way.

If you disagree, and have a cogent argument as such, I'm happy to entertain it. 

Bob
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Offline therealcu2010

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Re: The past few days...
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2016, 11:33:18 PM »
I appreciate all the comments in this thread, and I agree with just about all of them.

Let's all take a step back and rethink our priorities just a bit. Before you respond to a post with a snarky, sarcastic, borderline-rude reply, I implore all of you to ask yourself: is it worth it? Is a post on a message board worth getting defensive over? This site is supposed to be an escape from real life...if we all take everything so personally all the time, then it becomes far too real. I'm fully guilty of this as well, I will admit...but we're all human. Remember that there are people behind those usernames, and that those people have feelings too. This is not to say that we can't have fun and engage in good-natured ribbing...but there is a major difference between that and being outright disrespectful, and a lot of us (myself included!) are guilty of the latter too much lately.

If you have a problem with another member, consider discussing it respectfully with them via a private message. If someone personally attacks you in a post, use the "Report to moderator" button to notify us of it and we'll deal with it. Biting back helps nobody and fixes nothing, and only causes these things to spiral far out of control when they really don't need to.

Additionally, instead of constantly harping on things that happened in the past, let's put it behind us and move forward instead. Nobody's perfect. Dwelling upon past events is not going to help us move forward, but will only send us spiraling backwards.

Going forward, no more petty name-calling. It doesn't solve anything. Disagree with others respectfully, back up your points, but don't call them names. If someone does call you a name, report it and let us deal with it. Please remember forum Rule #1 first and foremost. If we all actively work to treat each other with respect, and communicate with each other, we'll be just fine. Most importantly, don't take everything so personally and just let things go from time to time.

I'll close with this- I can't speak for the rest of the moderation staff, but if you ever have a question or disagreement with something I do in a moderation capacity, feel free to send me a PM about it. I'm open to constructive criticism...after all, if I don't know I'm possibly in the wrong, I'll never be able to correct it. I actually had a member send me a courteous PM the other day questioning an edit I made to his post...after I kindly explained it back, he understood the reasoning behind it. Little things like that go a long way to building mutual respect among all of us.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 02:23:55 AM by therealcu2010 »
"Nobody cares about the guest stars." - Roger Dobkowitz

"Change isn't always good. Sometimes changing things is a terrible mistake." - Bob Barker

People are tired of the f**kery and drama, but if we'd actually talk to each other sometimes instead of a whole bunch of private conversations with other people, it'd go a long way to perhaps fixing the problems most seem to see in the site.

Offline thepriceis_J

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Re: The past few days...
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2016, 02:17:47 AM »
Thanking Fireball for many years of service, instead of roasting him for one month of disagreement, would go a long way.
I will say (and have said) that I am highly appreciative of Fireball's service. When I joined here five and half years ago, FPG had been retired. I was joyful to see Willy bring it back and I was very happy that it continued on in Fireball's hands. That said, in such a position as host of a forum game, I don't think you can have the one month of disagreement that Fireball had. Now, maybe it's just me, but I'm a little scarred from CSS Season 9. An entire half of the season was thrown away because the host abandoned the game. Now it wasn't just his doing. He had personal problems preventing him from attending the site, but he did return. However, he left the bulk of season's results unposted. It required for the entire season to be scrapped and for a brand new format to be adopted to even save the remainder of the season left. I did not want to see that happen to FPG. The game in my eyes is already on shaky ground. Even though we do believe the show is somewhat playing along with us, there is no Roger playing along officially. To top that off, spoilers are in far greater abundance than they were when the game was originally active. It wouldn't take much to justify ending the game. Fireball left, with no prior notice given, without it being clear that he was ever coming back. It gave me shades on Season 9 CSS and I didn't want to see FPG go that same route. If he had said something to someone, so much of what happened there could've been avoided. So, I'm sorry if I didn't welcome him back with the most open of arms.

I could've joined this site as far back as 2007. I didn't just because I didn't. However, I thought about it as I drifted away from the GSN boards in 2008. However, I read about and saw what was going on here and it scared me away. The rhetoric then was just pure augmentative. When I eventually joined, it was still somewhat like that. However, as things went along, a calm of sorts was reached. Probably after DarkShockBro's thread was when that happened. Not much was going on. Few things flared up here and there, but overall things were fine. It seems as though sometime in the last eighteen months, people have been angry, more than they should be on a forum, and the argumentative nature of the past has resurfaced. Here's the thing, I don't let personal emotions affect me when I post here and I don't let things here affect me elsewhere. I think some of this comes from people taking this site way too seriously. Let's argue and have disagreements, but let's leave it here. Let's not take things so seriously. It would really help.

When it comes to the rhetoric of some posters I'll say this. I'm not the type to be honest and abrasive. Some are. And sometimes, there's a time and a place for it. I agree that name-calling and insults should simply not be uttered here in a way to establish a more positive tone on the site. That said, I also believe that some need to, once again, not take everything so seriously. Some of the "name-calling" we're referring to probably wouldn't hold a candle to things found on even 60% of the internet.

I hope we can move forward and keep the positivity up. The "forum" as a collective presence on the internet is dying. But I love being able to come to a place like this and comprehensively talk about the game show I love and not have my thoughts limited to 140 characters. Nothing can last forever, but I hope to enjoy this place for as long as I can.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 02:23:46 AM by thepriceis_J »
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Offline Chelsea

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Re: The past few days...
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2016, 02:35:44 PM »
Thanking Fireball for many years of service, instead of roasting him for one month of disagreement, would go a long way.

I thanked Fireball for his many years of service upon his voluntary departure - voluntary as he had been offered a couple of options and felt leaving was the best option for him.  His response afterward was a moderately demeaning comment on his personal twitter directed at me - or at least a previous iteration of me.   

I'm going to be honest: I think that actually kind of encapsulates the core of where I'm at with things. I get involved, and next thing I know I'm wading hip deep in drama and am suddenly having former members and staff having meltdowns and questioning my sexual proclivities on social media. Frustration and malaise set in, and I have my own affairs to tend to, so I tend to suddenly disengage, which then causes the drama to start building up again.

I was hired to clear out a virus, back in 2010. That then morphed into doing technical support work for about a year, which then gradually led to, starting around 2012,  an overall administrative role (starting with the CSS host search and continuing onward). If I didn't still care about this show; about this site, I wouldn't still be here. .

I neither am equipped nor want to be the chief umpire.  At some point I've got an idea on how to push the site forward I want to look at implementing, and I want to be here to fix the technical stuff when it goes wrong. I considered just reducing my involvement without communicating it, but didn't want to make it look like I was suddenly disappearing.

For things like appeals, for spam bans, etc. of course I'll be here. And I really, really want to put some time in on my big project as I think it could be a magnificent thing. In the interim, you guys as users need to self-police. If something needs intervention, that needs to now be first and foremost the responsibility of the four Associate Producers. And everyone else needs to be clearheaded enough so that their intervention isn't needed frequently.

If I'm needed, if something's broken or you need to discuss a moderator, please, don't just PM me. If there's an issue with the CSS or FPG, contact the game host if possible, or otherwise one of the associate producers.  Email me or track me down on social media. Both are linked here. I've reassigned myself my former title of Technical Director, because that's where I see my role at the present.

I'm a human being, and in order to be able to further engage down the road, I'm going to have to be selective in my engagement in the here and now. CU, Prizes, Steve, Alfonzo - I created the Associate Producer title because I believe in you guys to get things done, and I believe in the people of this board to be kind to each other. Time to make that happen.

Offline GuyWithFace

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Re: The past few days...
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2016, 04:26:29 PM »
One thing I do not understand is in this thread (where Guint announced his resignation), I had noted that Guint's name had been struck through, indicating a banned member. When I rechecked it for a post I had made a couple of days ago (itself since removed, for reasons explained to me via PM), my post had disappeared (it should be right before the one by Wayoshi) and there was no strikethrough anymore.

If Guint was banned and this was later lifted, some transparency may help, such as a response in that thread addressing my comment (rather than deleting it and pretending it never happened). Indeed, this is all I ask for when it comes to things -- transparency.

Oh, and I find this somewhat amusing:
Catering to this crowd, while not tough, is ridiculous, especially when come a week this will be the only place on the site that doesn't have major issues.
Within the past week, Fireball returned (which led to major issues) and later resigned. Hm.

If [Fireball] had said something to someone [before his unexplained four-week departure], so much of what happened there could've been avoided. So, I'm sorry if I didn't welcome him back with the most open of arms.
Per Fireball himself...
Quote
I was prepared to give a fiery and profanity-laced speech on December 16 and leave the site altogether.  Instead, I simply logged out and stayed away from everybody.  I'm actually glad that I took a four-week hiatus from this site to cool off because it prevented me from doing what Searcy/Capitano/Guint did, which I might have regretted later.
He, at the time, was rather clearly not thinking about taking an absence -- he was thinking of leaving permanently. Had he reconsidered and attempted to tell someone he was taking a leave of absence (such as, as was suggested in that thread, sending a PM to Chelsea), he may have done what he had originally planned to do.

He disappears for four weeks, returns with a clear mind, and gets berated by several users who wanted him to leave a note before he left and "abandoned FPG". I felt sick at seeing things turn from "all the best" for Torgo to mixed responses for Guint to mostly negative for Fireball. Had I noticed the thread prior to its initial locking, I would have suggested that he wait a week to resume FPG duties so the re-transition would be smoother for all involved.

I thanked Fireball for his many years of service upon his voluntary departure - voluntary as he had been offered a couple of options and felt leaving was the best option for him.
I am curious as to what options you gave him. I ask your forgiveness for this, but the first thing which came to mind upon seeing this was what Rich DiPirro said about how and why he left Price (and what Richards said of his departure later on).
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 04:39:14 PM by GuyWithFace »
The above is my opinion and mine alone.

To answer your questions: yes, I am a guy and yes, I have a face. (I also have the occasional spurt of weirdness.)

Quote from: thepriceis_J
People are tired of the f**kery and drama, but if we'd actually talk to each other sometimes instead of a whole bunch of private conversations with other people, it'd go a long way to perhaps fixing the problems most seem to see in the site.

Offline GuyWithFace

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Re: The past few days...
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2016, 04:43:05 PM »
Addendum:

I ask your forgiveness for this, but the first thing which came to mind upon seeing this was what Rich DiPirro said about how and why he left Price (and what Richards said of his departure later on).
I apologize -- this was a rather jerkass-y comment on my part. Even implying that you are anything like the negative qualities of Richards was a terrible thing for me to do, one which I cannot delete now that the timeframe for editing has passed. :-(
The above is my opinion and mine alone.

To answer your questions: yes, I am a guy and yes, I have a face. (I also have the occasional spurt of weirdness.)

Quote from: thepriceis_J
People are tired of the f**kery and drama, but if we'd actually talk to each other sometimes instead of a whole bunch of private conversations with other people, it'd go a long way to perhaps fixing the problems most seem to see in the site.

Offline Torgo

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Re: The past few days...
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2016, 08:17:30 PM »
I felt sick at seeing things turn from "all the best" for Torgo to mixed responses for Guint to mostly negative for Fireball.
I gave two weeks notice. Guint left that day while providing a replacement. Fireball left without any explanation. I don't know what to tell you if you expected people to react to these three departures equally. That statement is entirely objective, too.
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Offline GuyWithFace

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Re: The past few days...
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2016, 09:06:44 PM »
Fireball left without any explanation.
...As the alternative was, as I already noted, him posting a profanity-laden post on December 16 and resigning. Instead, he opted to simply log out and take a break. The fact he did not tell anybody is, I feel, irrelevant -- yes, he abandoned his post, but I believe the alternative would have been far, far worse for all involved.

The issue for me, as I already said, was twofold -- Fireball attempted to take back the FPG immediately rather than waiting a week so the re-transition would be smoother, and he attempted to ban you from FPG due to matters unrelated to it (but were related to why he nearly exploded and subsequently took a break for four weeks).

I don't know what to tell you if you expected people to react to these three departures equally.
I did not expect people to react equally to three very different situations. I expected people who commented negatively in the second and third instances to be a bit more civilized than they were, at the very least.

Yes, Fireball deserved to be told off for letting his opinion of you cloud his judgment (and that his post on December 16 was generally seen as being sarcastic towards you), but aside from that many of the posts before the moderators stepped in were either "you should have told us you were going to be gone for a while" or "you abandoned FPG" or "we need to stop the name-calling and rudeness and other crap".

Everyone needed to step away for a time, not just Fireball.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 09:17:25 PM by GuyWithFace »
The above is my opinion and mine alone.

To answer your questions: yes, I am a guy and yes, I have a face. (I also have the occasional spurt of weirdness.)

Quote from: thepriceis_J
People are tired of the f**kery and drama, but if we'd actually talk to each other sometimes instead of a whole bunch of private conversations with other people, it'd go a long way to perhaps fixing the problems most seem to see in the site.

Offline SteveGavazzi

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Re: The past few days...
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2016, 10:59:29 PM »
And maybe we should step away from this discussion, too.  Trying to understand something that didn't make sense in the first place isn't going to get us anywhere, and ultimately, I can only see this leading to more shouting matches, whether that's what's being aimed for or not.
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Offline Chelsea

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Re: The past few days...
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2016, 06:18:00 AM »
And maybe we should step away from this discussion, too.  Trying to understand something that didn't make sense in the first place isn't going to get us anywhere, and ultimately, I can only see this leading to more shouting matches, whether that's what's being aimed for or not.

I would consider that a very, very good idea, personally. If anyone has any questions about the situation with Fireball, feel free to email or PM me as I am the one who was involved in that situation.  For any questions regarding the CSS host situation, I'm about as confused as anyone.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 06:29:27 AM by Chelsea »