An Apology

[TPIRFan2000]

As all of you who were in chat today know, I have copied Torgo's chat readouts and (to a much lesser extent) Qwizx.com's recaps for several of my recaps. I would like to apologize to Torgo and to Jay from Qwizx. It was wrong of me to plagiarize your recaps without your approval, and I understand that you would feel disappointed at me. I would also like to apologize to everyone who reads my recaps. I understand that all of you would also be disappointed at my actions. There were no excuses for my actions, and I now heavily regret what I did.

I will work with those whose work I plagiarized to fix any plagiarized material and help them in return. I accept any punishments for my behavior, and I realize that they are necessary. Thank you for reading.

[youlikesalad]

That's very humble and honorable.

Now, it's not my place to say, but...why is this wrong?  Are Torgo's/Qwizx's works some sort of copyrighted publication?  I don't mean to be cheeky, I just don't understand.

[Prizes]

Now, it's not my place to say, but...why is this wrong?  Are Torgo's/Qwizx's works some sort of copyrighted publication?  I don't mean to be cheeky, I just don't understand.

Ultimately, when you get appointed for a position, be it something as simple a position on here, or the real world, you do the job you are assigned, and unless otherwise specified and/or sourced, you do it yourself. It's the job you were hired to do. The job wasn't to rip and steal off Jay or Torgo's works, it's to bring your own spin on the position, off your own accounts and summarizations of the show at-hand. While not copyrighted, it's a matter of integrity.

For further reference, as to punishment specifics, for those wondering: TPIRFan2000 is banned from chat until the 21st of this month; a two week ban. That's final.

[sayingsorry]

This is where I get confused. There is nothing proprietary about results of a game show, its true events that happened. That is like taking CNN election results and posting them on Foxnews, its all the same information. Unless the look is the same and word for word is the same, which still is a stretch, how is this a problem? How many different ways can you type out Grand Game's results?

[SamJ93]

That's not quite a proper analogy.  While the results may still be the same, both networks still have their own journalists who are supposed to do their own research.  If a FOX reporter were to just watch CNN's coverage and use that as their own, there would understandably be a problem and that person would be fired.  As Prizes said, it's not a matter of copyright, it's just basic integrity as a person.

That being said, the punishment being handed down here seems rather draconian, IMHO.  Why not just a simple "Special thanks to Torgo and Jay Lewis for assistance" line--or something to that effect--in the recap itself?  Seems like including that in the first place would've gone a long way...

[mechamind]

There is nothing proprietary about results of a game show, its true events that happened.

It was wrong of me to plagiarize your recaps without your approval,

I don't know what went on, since I don't go to chat, but it sounds like it was a near-exact copy of the text before the finished recap.

I hope this doesn't stop you from writing the finished recaps though. You're doing fine.

[TPIRFan2000]

That's not quite a proper analogy.  While the results may still be the same, both networks still have their own journalists who are supposed to do their own research.  If a FOX reporter were to just watch CNN's coverage and use that as their own, there would understandably be a problem and that person would be fired.  As Prizes said, it's not a matter of copyright, it's just basic integrity as a person.

That being said, the punishment being handed down here seems rather draconian, IMHO.  Why not just a simple "Special thanks to Torgo and Jay Lewis for assistance" line--or something to that effect--in the recap itself?  Seems like including that in the first place would've gone a long way...

Completely agree with your first paragraph. As for the second, I will include a line at the bottom of the recap from now on if I use information from any other source - in hindsight, I should have been doing that from the start. Honestly though, I'm fine with my punishment as it is.

[jaydlewis]

I got the bat-signal about this thread & feel I should weigh in.

Now, it's not my place to say, but...why is this wrong?  Are Torgo's/Qwizx's works some sort of copyrighted publication?  I don't mean to be cheeky, I just don't understand.

No, my (I operate TPiR Ep Guide @ QWIZX.com) recaps aren't copyrighted. You'll notice that, on my site, it doesn't say "Copying this for use outside of this site prohibited." or some other nonsense. If someone wants to use a portion (not wholesale copy) they can I just want the courtesy of a credit and/or link back.

I have contacted TPIRfan (and every other recapper since Joe) and offered help and/or assistance when needed. TPIRfan had my (not explicit) permission to use my stuff for what he needed. And I was offered the same courtesy. Frankly, he was the first to actually offer help if I needed any and has been the friendliest of the lot.

IMO, going back to Joe, anyone who put that stupid tag line about "This recap is the property of golden-road.net..." is a dope. Really? You think a transcript of a TV show (that isn't your property) is somehow copyrightable in the vaguest sense of the term?

I'd bet good money there's a legal-gray area about what we do. Do recaps fall under "fair use?" Maybe. Would, for example, MLB sic their lawyers on people who were posting transcripts of games on some sort of fan site(s)? Maybe.

Also IMO, his punishment for a non-crime is laughable but this isn't my house. Prizes, et al, can make up whatever rules they deem fit.

Some of you take these recaps, this site & the show way too seriously. I am far FAR too old to engage in any petty jealousy over "recaps."

[brosa0]

I completely agree with jay's post.

It is absurd if the golden-road recapper cannot use info from the golden-road chat readout in compiling the recap (with appropriate credit being given to those who have contributed, of course) when they are both from the same site.   This is a voluntary role which has struggled to attract volunteers in recent years, and I don't see how it hurts anyone to break this big task down a bit by having someone collect the raw data from the episode (whether live in the chat or not), then someone else formatting the raw data into a html recap thread.

[GameShowFan1987]

I've made a point to stay out of any discussion involving recapper selection or any issues that come up but I've had this thought for quite some time now and I think this is the time to share it.  Why do we have just 1 person that's solely responsible for the recap?  Why can't we have a recap team of some kind?  Someone to help gather the information, somebody to write it up, somebody as a fill-in if someone has something important to do on a given day, something along those lines.  I think it's a bit of a tall order for 1 person to have to do it every single day and I can completely see why past recappers have resigned.  Real life can get in the way and finding the time to devote to watching every single episode and write up a complete rundown of it can be challenging if you have a busy life.  It's certainly not a job I'd want to have to do alone.

[vadernader]

I completely agree with jay's post.

It is absurd if the golden-road recapper cannot use info from the golden-road chat readout in compiling the recap (with appropriate credit being given to those who have contributed, of course) when they are both from the same site.   This is a voluntary role which has struggled to attract volunteers in recent years, and I don't see how it hurts anyone to break this big task down a bit by having someone collect the raw data from the episode (whether live in the chat or not), then someone else formatting the raw data into a html recap thread.

Same. I found the witch hunt in chat laughable at best. Testing/Interrogating the only remaining person on this site willing to do recaps is not something I was very fond of. I would understand if Jay had an issue with it, but frankly anything said in chat seems fair game and considering Jay himself is not too upset I don't really see why he needs to get "punished" for this.

He's not being paid to write recaps, it's a volunteer position. It's not an op-ed, it's simply copying down prizes that were on the show.

[sayingsorry]

Same. I found the witch hunt in chat laughable at best. Testing/Interrogating the only remaining person on this site willing to do recaps is not something I was very fond of. I would understand if Jay had an issue with it, but frankly anything said in chat seems fair game and considering Jay himself is not too upset I don't really see why he needs to get "punished" for this.

So let me just understand correctly, someone posts if a game is won or loss and people think a message in a chat room about something that is public knowledge is wrong to post in a forum without the consent/acknowledgement of the chat member who posted it?

I sometimes wonder how much time people have on their hands in here

[mechamind]

IMO, going back to Joe, anyone who put that stupid tag line about "This recap is the property of golden-road.net..." is a dope. Really? You think a transcript of a TV show (that isn't your property) is somehow copyrightable in the vaguest sense of the term?

No, it's not copyrightable. But you put a lot of effort into writing a recap, and you might want to be appreciated for the effort.

I'm not one of those people though. If I wrote a recap, what would matter to me is that it's recapped, and not that I did it. I've grown more accustomed to free (libre) media over the years anyway.

[Torgo]

If a FOX reporter were to just watch CNN's coverage and use that as their own

Hoo buddy, that's a bad example.

[SamJ93]

Hoo buddy, that's a bad example.

Setting aside the fact that it isn't even my own example, and without dragging politics into this...care to explain why?