Author Topic: An Apology  (Read 7666 times)

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Offline Torgo

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Re: An Apology
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2016, 04:28:23 PM »
Quote from: jaydlewis
Some of you take these recaps, this site & the show way too seriously. I am far FAR too old to engage in any petty jealousy over "recaps."
Yeah, talk to me once you get death threats over recaps.

It has happened. I don't like to bring it up.

Setting aside the fact that it isn't even my own example, and without dragging politics into this...care to explain why?
Can't.


Fixed quoting alignment (had "quteo" typed instead of "quote author") - PTR
« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 04:49:04 PM by PayingTheRent »
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Offline SamJ93

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Re: An Apology
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2016, 04:46:45 PM »
[quteo=jaydlewis]Some of you take these recaps, this site & the show way too seriously. I am far FAR too old to engage in any petty jealousy over "recaps."
Yeah, talk to me once you get death threats over recaps.

It has happened. I don't like to bring it up.

Kinda proves his point then, doesn't it?


Quote
Can't.

Then why stir the pot? 

Offline Prizes

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Re: An Apology
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2016, 04:51:59 PM »
Y'know, I wouldn't take issue with this if 2K actually gave Torgo credit. As those of you who are defending 2K said, you don't see the issue if credit is given. I won't speak for Torgo, but that's the meat of the matter to me. Credit was never actually given. Using the readout is fine, so long as it is credited. But none of this happened, and if you didn't know better, you'd think Torgo's chatroom work is irrelevant.

I got the bat-signal about this thread & feel I should weigh in.

Holy wow, this is a mess. I like you Jay, and you know better than to act on how you did on some of this post, independent of the recap situation. Have to ask, though: Who signaled you in? 2000? It begs the question.

No, my (I operate TPiR Ep Guide @ QWIZX.com) recaps aren't copyrighted. You'll notice that, on my site, it doesn't say "Copying this for use outside of this site prohibited." or some other nonsense. If someone wants to use a portion (not wholesale copy) they can I just want the courtesy of a credit and/or link back.

I think everyone agrees on the bolded, but the reality is, credit didn't happen. Don't you agree that itself deserves admonishment? This isn't about the recap for me, this is about credit where due, on a broader scale, a growing issue I've seen with various game show artwork of late. The last thing I want to do is support behavior like that.

IMO, going back to Joe, anyone who put that stupid tag line about "This recap is the property of golden-road.net..." is a dope. Really? You think a transcript of a TV show (that isn't your property) is somehow copyrightable in the vaguest sense of the term?

Strawman argument, this isn't about property ownership, it's about crediting when someone else has done the original work. Arguably hypocritical too, since you mention your own site elsewhere in the post. I love to use Qwizx for historical purposes, but still, odd timing, but that's my personal opinion.

Some of you take these recaps, this site & the show way too seriously. I am far FAR too old to engage in any petty jealousy over "recaps."

Not cool to have an indirect ad hominem in there. Far too old equates to calling us all children. You know how to use much better rhetoric than this. Torgo himself had issues with this some time ago, we (the staff) told him to stop, and he did. No double standards apply on my watch; I demand the same of you as I would any other user.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 04:54:21 PM by Prizes »
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Offline Torgo

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Re: An Apology
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2016, 05:00:46 PM »
Kinda proves his point then, doesn't it?
...no, not at all. How does me receiving death threats on a TPIR fan site justify something about jealousy over recaps?

Quote
Then why stir the pot?
I was just trying to stifle the political discussion. This thread has spiraled pretty far; no need to pull it in that direction too.
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Offline thepriceis_J

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Re: An Apology
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2016, 05:16:59 PM »
Kinda proves his point then, doesn't it?
No, it really proves the opposite. If you think that people take these recaps too seriously, then take a look at this troll who is either mocking or out of their mind and waging death threats against moderators, something that has happened to this moderator probably more than any other in the last 6 years. And even if that troll is trolling, death threats really aren't something to take lightly. I'd perhaps take this one not as seriously, but there have people involved in far greater controversies on Twitter (involving video games and the like) that have waged seriously death threats towards people and affected their lives outside of Twitter. Sometimes it ain't a joke and it's far more serious than anyone could ever be about the authenticity of a recap.

Since I haven't spoken on this publicly yet, here are my thoughts:

Listen, I thought the Joe C. line being kept in the recaps were sort of a heritage thing more than anything. Especially since that whole "let's name this entire section after him" thing didn't exactly pan out.

I think that there is nothing wrong with using the chat readouts to help you build the recap, but I do think that the recapper should at some point watch the show. Torgo does great work in chat and jay, you do great work on Qwizx, but no one is perfect. If there is an error in either source, it's possible that the recapper might catch it and should try to. And perhaps, like Torgo, Adam, and Kitch before him (shout-out to Vader), he should try to put his own spin on recapping. That's what makes it fun sometimes. It isn't a requirement, it isn't that serious, but it'd help leave a positive mark much like those previous three and jay have.

All that said, I once again don't frown upon using the chat readouts because this is a community and not some capitalistic state where every man is for himself. We should try to help each other out and support each other when we need help. This type of community, the game show community and forum community is shrinking. Not many new fans are coming in and a lot of folk are losing interest in the whole thing. Helping each other out would probably make us stronger. I myself probably wouldn't hold up the chat ban for longer than a week (especially since the following week is only one new episode).

Also, I feel like it makes no sense to once again call out people on a Price Is Right forum for being "too serious" when I've pointed out cases where it can get far more serious and potentially dangerous. In addition, we're apart of a community that plots the slotting of every game going back 16-17 years. We have every lineup from the entire history of the show and a timeline to go with it. Compared to the other 4.9998 million people that watch the show, we are too serious. I agree that some can get even more serious than us. Foregoing basic manners and decency to perhaps talk about the show, but this isn't one of those times. I bet everyone of us, and I know more than a few of us, have a lot of stuff going on in our real lives and are really only doing this online, not letting it have any affect on our personal business. This isn't an issue that's being handled that seriously in my opinion.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 05:21:15 PM by thepriceis_J »
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Offline Roadgeek Adam

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Re: An Apology
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2016, 05:29:33 PM »
Quote from: Thepriceis_J

Listen, I thought the Joe C. line being kept in the recaps were sort of a heritage thing more than anything. Especially since that whole "let's name this entire section after him" thing didn't exactly pan out.

I kept it because I thought it was important. Really, if I were choosing, I would've done it Creative Commons-ShareAlike-3.0, which would've made it usable as long as I am credited. 
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Offline vadernader

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Re: An Apology
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2016, 07:48:59 PM »
Yeah, talk to me once you get death threats over recaps.

It has happened. I don't like to bring it up.

It happened to me. Can I talk to you?

Not sure why that is relevant when clearly it wasn't a serious threat and was just another troll on the boards spouting nonsense.

(But really, it happened to me as well...)
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Offline jaydlewis

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Re: An Apology
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2016, 09:33:24 PM »
I've got two tabs open to try and respond to the points I feel deserve responding to...no quoting but I'll do my best.

Mechamind - I have done a lot (A LOT) for the game show community and the number of "Thanks for doing X" notes I've gotten over 20+ years is minuscule. I know it's a thankless "job" and don't expect any semblance of gratitude. It's nice when it happens but anyone expecting a pat on the back is deluding themselves. You will note that, on my site, I take great care of thank/credit recappers.

The only time I get "uppity" is when someone tries passing off my work as their own or tries to profit from my work. (That actually happened and I was...not happy.)


Togro & Vader - I too have received nasty emails & threats. The sender gets a reply telling them, in no uncertain terms, what they can do & then I block. As vader said, death threats aren't really relevant. If it was that serious, or you actually felt endangered, you'd have contacted the authorities. Trolls get blocked & life goes on.

That someone(s) are threatening people over recaps 100% cements my statement that some people take things way too seriously.


thepriceis_J - Joe C's line about "property of blah blah" really isn't heritage. The childish behaviour of an adult should have been purged and Roadgeek_Adam's Creative Commons footnote makes FAR more sense.

Taking "an interest" serious is perfectly fine, and normal. I 100% encourage people taking their hobbies/interests seriously. But, I used the phrase "way too seriously." Clearly I am referring to the 1% of members/lurkers who live & die by the show and what we do to celebrate & document it.

There is a line (a fuzzy line but one none-the-less) that gets crossed. Crossing that line makes you fair game, IMO, to be called out & get that person to reign it in. IMO (again) that quasi self-policing makes for an overall better experience for everyone.


Prizes - I'm not calling out who alerted me to this thread. There are only a few thousand members, any of whom could have let me know. Since this "affects" me, I felt it was prudent to say something.

I told TPIRFan2000 explicitly (I checked my outbox) that he could use my recaps for a placeholder. I didn't explicitly ask for credit/a link. I am totally non-plussed that he didn't. Since I (I'm not speaking for Torgo, I (and only I) speak for me) don't feel wronged, then...no. I don't think he deserves admonishment beyond saying "You've erred in X way. Please fix it Y way going forward." But, as I've said, this is your sandbox to moderate. I'm not telling you how to mod, just filling in the rest of the story.

I don't know how mentioning my own site is hypocritical. Saying that I/QWIZX.com are the same person was only to make that clarification. That the site isn't operated by some faceless party. Besides, not everyone knows who operates what sites.

As to "calling us children?" Please. I'm convinced that's you creating some sort of narrative to defend your position and make me "the old grump." Two points... I *AM* too old for drama/etc surrounding something as silly as recaps. 15-20 years ago, I definitely felt differently. But with age & maturity comes a better ability to not sweat the small stuff.

And two, it's pretty much a quote from Lethal Weapon's Roger Murtaugh (played sublimely by Danny Glover) who says "I'm too old for this s***!"


tl;dr - TPIRFan2000 had my permission but didn't credit me. My opinion is a slap on the wrist and a request to correct said behaviour. I'm not upset in the slightest regarding his "crime."


I have put serious thought into this post. It is not some sort of shoot-from-the-hip emotional response. With this though, I'm done commenting on the subject. If anyone really needs to hash it out further, please reach out to me off-site.

Offline thepriceis_J

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Re: An Apology
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2016, 12:57:40 AM »
Hopefully you're still reading at least because I wanted to say that I pretty much agreed with you.

I most certainly agree that there are numerous times that people cross that line from heavy interest into over-obsessive. I just thought that line wasn't completely crossed here.

It really isn't much of a big deal, and I at least speak for myself when I say I appreciate your laid back attitude on the manor and willingness to help out 2K. As I said above, with the shrinking community, I most certainly enjoy seeing us all work together.
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