Author Topic: Simple Questions & Answers Thread  (Read 51430 times)

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Online RatRace10

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Re: Simple Questions & Answers Thread
« Reply #165 on: December 11, 2019, 09:26:39 PM »
When talking about the "zero rule" in 10 Chances, some fans add, "If 0 isn't a choice, then the last number is 5."

Do we know the last playing where this was the case? Seems like it's been so long it's not even worth mentioning anymore.

Offline SteveGavazzi

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Re: Simple Questions & Answers Thread
« Reply #166 on: December 11, 2019, 11:09:23 PM »
I'm not sure exactly when it was, but it's gotta be about 20 years at this point.  I'm thinking either Season 28 or Season 29.
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Offline mellongraig

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Re: Simple Questions & Answers Thread
« Reply #167 on: December 16, 2019, 04:36:16 AM »
Going back to the buzzer situation, in Lucky Seven early on it was common to hear the regular buzzer go off when the contestant went broke in 1973 and early 1974. By the time Season 3 came (and maybe earlier than that, but later in 1974 for sure), the regular dings were heard and only then afterwards the buzzer would be used in exceptional circumstances just like Any Number as well for example.

I've seen instances in the 80s where Blank Check/Check Game (for underbids and overbids), Safe Crackers, Pick a Pair, Secret X, among others used the regular buzzer too for losses even if it wasn't the primary sound that was used (or in cases alternated between the two buzzers like Pick a Pair being akin to Take Two).

Online RatRace10

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Re: Simple Questions & Answers Thread
« Reply #168 on: December 30, 2019, 03:45:45 PM »
Anyone have a list of all the known playings of Plinko where no money was won, and how many chips the player had?

Online moneygamelover

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Re: Simple Questions & Answers Thread
« Reply #169 on: January 15, 2020, 12:40:27 AM »
About how fast does the money count down during the 2nd part of Time is Money? During today's show Drew stated that it was about $1000 every 2 seconds. Is that about accurate?
Adjustments that should be made to pricing games to make them fairer: Secret X: Add a 3rd SP so that perfect pricing ensures a win. 1/2 Off: Add a 4th set of SPs so that perfect pricing ensures a win. Master Key: Add 2 more SPs so that perfect pricing ensures a win. Rat Race: Add 2 more SPs so that perfect pricing ensures a win.

The following pricing games should be retired because there's no way or no easy way to make them fair: Spelling Bee, Plinko, Punch a Bunch, Pass the Buck, Let em Roll.

The following retired pricing games should be revived: $uper $aver, Give or Keep, Buy or Sell, Hurdles, Bump, Penny Ante, Credit Card, On the Spot, Split Decision, Add em Up, Walk of Fame, Barker's Markers.

Online gamesurf

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Re: Simple Questions & Answers Thread
« Reply #170 on: January 15, 2020, 03:37:32 AM »
I could have sworn that the time clock started off fast and slowed down as it got closer to $0, so I found a few videos of recent playings and did a frame-by-frame analysis. Nope. I was dead wrong, the clock runs at the same rate whether it's at $19,500 or $500.

Here's what else I learned:

  • The time clock runs exactly 40 seconds each time.
  • $1,000, exactly to the dollar, is run off exactly every two seconds.
  • Exactly $500 to the second.
  • Exactly $250 is run off every half second.

The money clock, however, does not match the 29.97 FPS that NTSC shows are shot and broadcast at. It runs at 16 frames per second. It repeats the same pattern every half second; or, in other words, 8 different numbers are flashed on the money clock every half second, each one $30-32 less than the number that was flashed before.

Put simply: The money clock repeats the same 8-number sequence that knocks off $250 in half a second, 80 times in a playing.

Interestingly, that 8-number sequence doesn't seem to start in the same place or contain the same numbers every playing. For example, in one playing it went [8000; 7969; 7938; 7906....7500; 7469; 7438; 7406...], and in another it went [8008; 7976; 7946; 7914...7508; 7476, 7446, 7414...] The first sequence results in nice, round amounts being winnable like $14,000, $8,500, or $5,250; the second sequence produces numbers like $14,008 and $8,508 and $5,258. Why does it do this? Darned if I know, but I thought it was interesting.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 03:44:16 AM by gamesurf »
Quote from: Mark Goodson
"It's the greatest challenge in the world to invent a new game. For every one you see, every concept that is ultimately refined and developed, a dozen are worked on and not worked on, or almost worked on, or dropped because they don't read any more. We test and hammer and test and hammer...

When you finally get it down so that it looks very very simple, that one has had the most complicated amount of work."

Quote from: Bill Todman
"The sign of a good game, is when you don't have to explain it every day. The key is not simplicity, but apparent simplicity. Password looks like any idiot could have made it up, but we have 14 of our people working on that show. There is a great complexity behind the screen. It requires great work to keep it simple."

Offline tpiradam

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Re: Simple Questions & Answers Thread
« Reply #171 on: January 15, 2020, 10:56:39 AM »
Before the age of the internet and reruns on GSN, how were winning records and Ďhistoric momentsí documented? One example I can think of is Iíve heard there was a near full Plinko win sometime in the late 80s/early 90s but Iím not able to find any information other than the fact it happened. Was it one of those moments where someone vividly recalls it happening and it gets passed on via word of mouth? Same thing with the supposed $0 difference from the 70s and a moment from the late 80s where both contestants showcase bids were less than $100 or even just biggest winners and double showcase winners.

What was the deal with Make Your Moveís rule change early in its incarnation? Why was it not played during the second half of its premiere season? Same question for pick-a-pair, bargain game, card game and check gameís long absences.

Offline ooboh

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Re: Simple Questions & Answers Thread
« Reply #172 on: January 15, 2020, 02:28:44 PM »
I could have sworn that the time clock started off fast and slowed down as it got closer to $0, so I found a few videos of recent playings and did a frame-by-frame analysis. Nope. I was dead wrong, the clock runs at the same rate whether it's at $19,500 or $500.

Here's what else I learned:

  • The time clock runs exactly 40 seconds each time.
  • $1,000, exactly to the dollar, is run off exactly every two seconds.
  • Exactly $500 to the second.
  • Exactly $250 is run off every half second.

The money clock, however, does not match the 29.97 FPS that NTSC shows are shot and broadcast at. It runs at 16 frames per second. It repeats the same pattern every half second; or, in other words, 8 different numbers are flashed on the money clock every half second, each one $30-32 less than the number that was flashed before.

Put simply: The money clock repeats the same 8-number sequence that knocks off $250 in half a second, 80 times in a playing.

Interestingly, that 8-number sequence doesn't seem to start in the same place or contain the same numbers every playing. For example, in one playing it went [8000; 7969; 7938; 7906....7500; 7469; 7438; 7406...], and in another it went [8008; 7976; 7946; 7914...7508; 7476, 7446, 7414...] The first sequence results in nice, round amounts being winnable like $14,000, $8,500, or $5,250; the second sequence produces numbers like $14,008 and $8,508 and $5,258. Why does it do this? Darned if I know, but I thought it was interesting.

$250 in half a second, so $31.25 every 1/16 (0.0625) seconds. Of course, the money clock is only integers, so the clock likely decreases in a cycle of $31-$31-$31-$32.

Offline MSTieScott

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Re: Simple Questions & Answers Thread
« Reply #173 on: January 15, 2020, 02:40:24 PM »
Interestingly, that 8-number sequence doesn't seem to start in the same place or contain the same numbers every playing. For example, in one playing it went [8000; 7969; 7938; 7906....7500; 7469; 7438; 7406...], and in another it went [8008; 7976; 7946; 7914...7508; 7476, 7446, 7414...] The first sequence results in nice, round amounts being winnable like $14,000, $8,500, or $5,250; the second sequence produces numbers like $14,008 and $8,508 and $5,258. Why does it do this? Darned if I know, but I thought it was interesting.

That is interesting. I wonder whether the computer running the game is tracking button presses down to the millisecond. So while the monitor can only display one dollar amount per frame during the countdown, when the contestant presses the button, the computer determines exactly what the money should be and displays that number. Then, when the countdown is resumed, the display starts subtracting $31/$32 from the most recent stopping point.
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Online RatRace10

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Re: Simple Questions & Answers Thread
« Reply #174 on: January 15, 2020, 05:19:46 PM »
The money clock, however, does not match the 29.97 FPS that NTSC shows are shot and broadcast at. It runs at 16 frames per second. It repeats the same pattern every half second; or, in other words, 8 different numbers are flashed on the money clock every half second, each one $30-32 less than the number that was flashed before.

Wouldn't it be better to do a frame-by-frame analysis of an actual TV airing since Price is aired in 60 FPS? CBS.com downscales it to 30, but if you use a good capture device to capture it live on CBS, you should be able to play it back in the better framerate.

Offline pricefan18

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Re: Simple Questions & Answers Thread
« Reply #175 on: January 15, 2020, 05:43:10 PM »
Before the age of the internet and reruns on GSN, how were winning records and Ďhistoric momentsí documented? One example I can think of is Iíve heard there was a near full Plinko win sometime in the late 80s/early 90s but Iím not able to find any information other than the fact it happened.

It did happen, November 30, 1990. Contestant won $21,000 out of a then possible $25,000. The FAQ has it listed. Still no video of it though out there. I'd love to see it eventually personally, as I suspect others here might too.

Online RatRace10

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Re: Simple Questions & Answers Thread
« Reply #176 on: January 15, 2020, 05:50:18 PM »
It did happen, November 30, 1990. Contestant won $21,000 out of a then possible $25,000. The FAQ has it listed. Still no video of it though out there. I'd love to see it eventually personally, as I suspect others here might too.

Bob alluded to this when the record total was about to be broken in terms of actual winnings after the center slot permanently increased to $10K. ("The most anyone's won in Plinko is $21,000 - four chips in the $5,000, one in the $1,000") Of course, this remains the "best" playing of the game to date despite the changes in values.

Online gamesurf

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Re: Simple Questions & Answers Thread
« Reply #177 on: January 15, 2020, 06:01:33 PM »
Wouldn't it be better to do a frame-by-frame analysis of an actual TV airing since Price is aired in 60 FPS? CBS.com downscales it to 30, but if you use a good capture device to capture it live on CBS, you should be able to play it back in the better framerate.

In theory, but I don't have that at the moment. ;-) I'm a cable-cutter and my CBS streaming service is only 30fps.

$250 in half a second, so $31.25 every 1/16 (0.0625) seconds. Of course, the money clock is only integers, so the clock likely decreases in a cycle of $31-$31-$31-$32.

The amount subtracted always seems to be in this order: $31-$31-$32-$31-$31-$32-$30-$32, repeated. It's nearly identical to "what it it eliminated $31.25 every time, and then rounded the amount to the nearest dollar", except the last two numbers in the eight-number sequence are respectively $1 higher and $1 lower than they ought to be. You can almost break it into a perfect quarter-second, 4-number $125 loop, but it fails to correctly predict the last two numbers in every other loop.

That is interesting. I wonder whether the computer running the game is tracking button presses down to the millisecond. So while the monitor can only display one dollar amount per frame during the countdown, when the contestant presses the button, the computer determines exactly what the money should be and displays that number. Then, when the countdown is resumed, the display starts subtracting $31/$32 from the most recent stopping point.

I thought that too, but it doesn't seem to be the case. The same amounts are displayed on every $250 loop, whether the button is hit or not.

So I went to tpirstats to see some of the odd amounts that have been won. I think that revealed the answer.

There are only three sequences, all with perfect $250 loops.

a) One loops perfectly on every $1000/$750/$500/$250 amount.
b) One loops $8 higher, on every $1008/$758/$508/$258 amount.
c) One loops $8 lower, on every $992/$742/$492/$242 amount.

On loop a, the first amount removes $31, going from $20,000 to $19,969, immediately beginning the 31-31-32-31-31-32-30-32 loop. When the clock runs out, it follows the normal $250-$219-$188-$156-$125-$94-$64-$32-$0 pattern.
On loop b, the first amount removes $54 ONLY when starting the clock, going from $20,000 to $19,946, and from then on looping perfectly through that $250 8-number sequence until ending with $258-$226-$196-$164-$133-$102-$70-$39-$8-$0.
On loop c, the first amount removes $39 on the first amount ONLY, going from $20,000 to $19,961, and from then on looping perfectly through that $250 8-number sequence until ending with $274-$242-$211-$180-$148-$117-$86-$54-$24-$0.

Pulled in those playings and counted the money clock frame-by-frame and every playing seems to match up perfectly with one of those three patterns.

And as one final note, all of this applies to all the playings I analyzed from S47 and S48, but at some point it was changed to this pattern from something different. Some S46 playings have winning amounts that appear to be off by about $2, and when I looked at one from 2014 the clock ran much more smoothly, to the point where the tens digit changed every frame and I couldn't make out the ones digit on a freeze frame.
Quote from: Mark Goodson
"It's the greatest challenge in the world to invent a new game. For every one you see, every concept that is ultimately refined and developed, a dozen are worked on and not worked on, or almost worked on, or dropped because they don't read any more. We test and hammer and test and hammer...

When you finally get it down so that it looks very very simple, that one has had the most complicated amount of work."

Quote from: Bill Todman
"The sign of a good game, is when you don't have to explain it every day. The key is not simplicity, but apparent simplicity. Password looks like any idiot could have made it up, but we have 14 of our people working on that show. There is a great complexity behind the screen. It requires great work to keep it simple."

Offline ooboh

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Re: Simple Questions & Answers Thread
« Reply #178 on: January 15, 2020, 07:15:12 PM »
Gamesurf, I remember making a post about this a few months back. It seemed, in the early stages of the gameís history, the clock actually looked like it decreased by $1 every  2 milliseconds. It probably mustíve been a nightmare to run it on the computer, which is probably why they changed it to the current average of $31.25 per 1/16 second.

Online PatrickRox80

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Re: Simple Questions & Answers Thread
« Reply #179 on: February 01, 2020, 01:11:44 PM »
What will replace the "K" on the production codes? The first one starting with 9 just aired this past week.