Author Topic: Chances of Prime Time Specials Again?  (Read 3402 times)

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Offline gamesurf

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Re: Chances of Prime Time Specials Again?
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2019, 01:55:32 AM »
It makes me wonder why they didn't try giving primetime Price a shot when @#$% My Dad Says got the boot a few years back after only a few episodes...

You just quoted the reason why.

Those things happen. They have shows on the shelf and can plug in reruns as an option. Happens fairly regularly across the networks when you take a long-term view.

Trying to scramble to get Price ready for such an occurrence would probably be somewhere around “plan z.”
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When you finally get it down so that it looks very very simple, that one has had the most complicated amount of work." -Mark Goodson

Offline thepriceis_J

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Re: Chances of Prime Time Specials Again?
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2019, 07:33:31 PM »
I'm just going to put it this way. Someone at CBS should probably lose their job for decisions made. They're sitting on Price and LMAD in primetime and somehow thought paying for the world's largest touch screen for a has-been app (Candy Crush), Kevin Hart's indoor American Ninja Warrior (TKO) and LeBron's American Gladiators (Million Dollar Mile) would be more successful/more cost effective than just commissioning Price and LMAD for 10 extra episodes with an inflated budget.

I'm all for the CBS having a rock solid lineup as the reason we don't see Price and LMAD, but I'm curious as to an explanation as to why those clunkers got picked while two popular stalwart shows sit in a dark corner for the summer.
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Offline GRWHAMMY the 2nd

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Re: Chances of Prime Time Specials Again?
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2019, 08:34:40 PM »
it's hard enough running a successful daytime show -with little competition similar to it
what happens when TPIR/LMAD runs up against the likes of AGT and Idol

Offline Axl

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Re: Chances of Prime Time Specials Again?
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2019, 10:58:53 PM »
I'm curious as to an explanation as to why those clunkers got picked while two popular stalwart shows sit in a dark corner for the summer.

"Same show you already see in the middle of the day, but with more money" has not proven to be a compelling formula to attract audiences.

The MDS format has a fairly lengthy track record at this point.  The shows you mentioned did not.  If you're looking for the next big thing, you have to try some new stuff and see what works.  Fox took a gamble on the ridiculous Masked Singer, and it paid off.  There are crazier ideas than giving a shot to shows with Mark Burnett, LeBron James, and Kevin Hart behind them.

Offline thepriceis_J

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Re: Chances of Prime Time Specials Again?
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2019, 12:18:31 AM »
it's hard enough running a successful daytime show -with little competition similar to it
what happens when TPIR/LMAD runs up against the likes of AGT and Idol
Then...don't put it up against AGT or Idol. Both of which, by the way, don't really pull in awesome numbers like they used to. And Idol would be off the air by the summer anyway. It usually ended by mid-May on FOX and still does on ABC since they've really streamlined the season to get it in before the NBA playoffs start airing on the network.

"Same show you already see in the middle of the day, but with more money" has not proven to be a compelling formula to attract audiences.
But clearly people are interested in watching game shows in primetime since ABC just went crazy with all that they've ordered. Pyramid, CFF, TTTT, and MG are all pretty much the same as they were in daytime just with more money and Card Sharks and PYL aren't going to be that far off from their original versions either. Like, back when some of us were pining for MDS when CBS' schedule was rock solid and there was no/very little game shows in primetime back in 2011-15, I'd get it and understand more. But the landscape is flooded with primetime games now. Someone is attracted to something, because ABC, NBC, and FOX aren't just throwing money away.

The MDS format has a fairly lengthy track record at this point.  The shows you mentioned did not.  If you're looking for the next big thing, you have to try some new stuff and see what works.  Fox took a gamble on the ridiculous Masked Singer, and it paid off.  There are crazier ideas than giving a shot to shows with Mark Burnett, LeBron James, and Kevin Hart behind them.
I'd get that the first time for Candy Crush (though again, the app was nowhere near as popular as it was in 2012/2013), and maybe they think Kevin Hart can be funny enough to draw people in, fine, but take the hint. How many times are you going to throw spaghetti at the wall when ABC, NBC, and FOX have all also greenlit traditional types of game shows? I know you've got to try new things, but you can still try some of the same things at the same time. Especially when other networks are filling the schedule fine with it.
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Offline gamesurf

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Re: Chances of Prime Time Specials Again?
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2019, 02:05:19 AM »
"Same show you already see in the middle of the day, but with more money" has not proven to be a compelling formula to attract audiences.

But clearly people are interested in watching game shows in primetime since ABC just went crazy with all that they've ordered. Pyramid, CFF, TTTT, and MG are all pretty much the same as they were in daytime just with more money and Card Sharks and PYL aren't going to be that far off from their original versions either.

I think these are very different situations...those "old" ABC shows haven't been on the air in years. If you don't have GSN or Buzzr, you're probably not watching old reruns of those shows. Plus, they're not just targeting fans of the original series--for a lot of people, the names Charles Nelson Reilly or Richard Dawson mean nothing to them, but they HAVE heard of Alec Baldwin. There's reasons to tune in besides "ooh I remember that show!"

On the other hand, anyone with CBS can tune into TPIR, any day they want, especially with the advent of DVR and online streaming. If you're somebody interested in watching Price is Right, you're probably already watching Price is Right. And if you're somebody who's currently NOT interested in watching daytime Price is Right, is running it in primetime with bigger payouts really going be enough to change your mind?

But the landscape is flooded with primetime games now. Someone is attracted to something, because ABC, NBC, and FOX aren't just throwing money away....ABC, NBC, and FOX have all also greenlit traditional types of game shows? I know you've got to try new things, but you can still try some of the same things at the same time. Especially when other networks are filling the schedule fine with it.

Can you elaborate what shows are currently on the air you would consider "traditional" game shows? (Besides the obvious ABC revivals, of course.)

I honestly can't think of that many...I would consider shows like Beat Shazam and Mental Samurai to be closer in genetics to the Mark Burnett-esque primetime stunt extravaganzas like TKO or Candy Crush or Million Dollar Mile than the "traditional" classics.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 02:09:20 AM by gamesurf »
"It's the greatest challenge in the world to invent a new game. For every one you see, every concept that is ultimately refined and developed, a dozen are worked on and not worked on, or almost worked on, or dropped because they don't read any more. We test and hammer and test and hammer...

When you finally get it down so that it looks very very simple, that one has had the most complicated amount of work." -Mark Goodson

Offline thepriceis_J

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Re: Chances of Prime Time Specials Again?
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2019, 02:52:18 AM »
On the other hand, anyone with CBS can tune into TPIR, any day they want, especially with the advent of DVR and online streaming. If you're somebody interested in watching Price is Right, you're probably already watching Price is Right. And if you're somebody who's currently NOT interested in watching daytime Price is Right, is running it in primetime with bigger payouts really going be enough to change your mind?
I think there are still plenty of fans of The Price is Right, casual fans that is, that don't watch the current daytime show either primarily due to work and lacking the willingness to use up DVR space for it. Which is fine, but I think those same casual fans would probably enjoy seeing it and LMAD on at night. "Oh, I don't usually watch this during the day, let's peek in." I'm sure that's part of the reason why CBS was fine greenlighting the first Salute/MDS specials (besides the fact that their primetime lineup at the time was practically garbage outside of CSI and the reality trio).

People tune into Celebrity Family Feud even though Family Feud is on far more than Price is, which only airs once a day here. Now, Price has done celeb specials before. Bigger prizes and celebs could probably draw in more eyeballs. People also like specials. It'd be one thing if they aired a daytime episode in primetime, but make it special and it gives people a reason to watch. The show doesn't do these theme weeks in daytime just for the fun of it.

Can you elaborate what shows are currently on the air you would consider "traditional" game shows? (Besides the obvious ABC revivals, of course.)

I honestly can't think of that many...I would consider shows like Beat Shazam and Mental Samurai to be closer in genetics to the Mark Burnett-esque primetime stunt extravaganzas like TKO or Candy Crush or Million Dollar Mile than the "traditional" classics.
Beat Shazam is Name That Tune. And it really isn't that extravagant outside of the million dollar prize. It's literally guessing like 28 songs in less than 2 seconds. A simple format (perhaps even simpler than NTT) they've hardly glitzed up for primetime outside of the set and hiring Jamie Foxx. They can't even pay for the giant Shazam board to come out of the wall as in previous seasons. They're just going to start using stock footage of it now.

I'd also consider The Wall, Hollywood Game Night, to be more traditional than not. Yeah, The Wall is big and flashy and stunty, but it's giant Plinko with questions. And Hollywood Game Night is Win, Lose or Draw, but someone actually brought other games to play than just Pictionary.

Mental Samurai, Ellen's Game of Games, and the upcoming Spin the Wheel I'll admit are a little more on the line of stunt than "traditional" (though StW looks like it'll probably just be The Big Spin with questions), but at the end of the day, people are playing games based around knowledge for money (admittedly, Ellen's "knowledge" is more light fare just to get to the laughs).

You're right, it's not that many, but it's something, even if it's ABC leading the pack.
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Offline gamesurf

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Re: Chances of Prime Time Specials Again?
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2019, 01:25:58 PM »
Beat Shazam is Name That Tune. And it really isn't that extravagant outside of the million dollar prize. It's literally guessing like 28 songs in less than 2 seconds. A simple format (perhaps even simpler than NTT) they've hardly glitzed up for primetime outside of the set and hiring Jamie Foxx.

I guess this is where I should admit I haven't actually watched Beat Shazam and assumed from the promos and the attached Mark Burnett name it would be another triumph of form over substance. But you know what happens when you assume...one of these days I ought to give it a shot.

People tune into Celebrity Family Feud even though Family Feud is on far more than Price is, which only airs once a day here.

Harvey FF is definitely a much bigger ratings hit than Price, as much as it pains me to admit, so a primetime version brings with it a bigger guaranteed audience. (Weirdly, oversaturation doesn't seem to hurt it. Nothing seems to hurt it. It's baffling to me. You'd think people would be tired of it at this point but oh well.)

Good points all around though, made persuasively. A lot to agree with here. Biggest sticking point for me is I don't totally agree there's proof there are THAT many casual TPIR fans out there (only CBS, of course, would know the actual numbers), but I see where you're coming from.

Side note, I love that we can have in-depth discussions on game show minutiae like this without getting into a shouting match. Site's really changed from a few years ago and for the better.
"It's the greatest challenge in the world to invent a new game. For every one you see, every concept that is ultimately refined and developed, a dozen are worked on and not worked on, or almost worked on, or dropped because they don't read any more. We test and hammer and test and hammer...

When you finally get it down so that it looks very very simple, that one has had the most complicated amount of work." -Mark Goodson

Offline 3StrikesFan

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Re: Chances of Prime Time Specials Again?
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2019, 11:45:46 AM »
I always wondered why Wheel of Fortune never tried prime time specials. They could do Celebrity Wheel of Fortune or regular Wheel.

I agree though, I think CBS is dumb for not at least trying Price or Deal in prime time  in the summer.....it couldn’t hurt. Doesn’t even have to be MDS....just a little bigger prize budget.

Online ThomHuge

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Re: Chances of Prime Time Specials Again?
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2019, 02:05:00 PM »
I always wondered why Wheel of Fortune never tried prime time specials. They could do Celebrity Wheel of Fortune or regular Wheel.

I think it might have something to do with the fact that Wheel is in first-run syndication, which means its airtime isn't necessarily constant from one market to the next. (In my area, southeastern US, it's already sort of in primetime, airing at 7:30PM right after Jeopardy.)

I agree though, I think CBS is dumb for not at least trying Price or Deal in prime time  in the summer.....it couldn’t hurt. Doesn’t even have to be MDS....just a little bigger prize budget.

(Does CBS even have anything to do with Deal? I thought that was NBC's gig.)

It worked in the 70s with the Dennis James version, and in the 80s with the Tom Kennedy show and the '86 primetime specials. The less said about the 1994 show the better, but they tried it again in 2002 with good success and with the 2003-2007 MDSs. I don't know that I count the MDS's in 2008 because those were forced on CBS by the writers' strike, and any good ratings could be chalked up to them being the only non-rerun game in town.

It seems like every primetime offering from 1986 on had some kind of gimmick, something new to offer viewers they couldn't get in daytime. The 86 specials had that glitzed-up set, tuxedos, a bigger budget, and introduced new game props. The '94 version, for all its faults, was definitely a different experience from daytime--say what you will about it being too radical a departure, but it was definitely unique, and I remember tuning in as much out of curiosity as genuine interest in the franchise. The 2002 shows focused on the armed forces, appropriate given what had happened the previous year, which was a draw all by itself even before we noticed the glitzed-up set and significantly higher budget. The MDS's kind of were what they were, but it was great seeing a million-dollar Price is Right to compete with the likes of WWTBAM and its peers. I will say the one thing that all the primetimers I've seen have gotten right was having less commercial time--helped the shows feel a lot less rushed and allowed them to leave in things they'd have to edit out for regular shows.

Seems like they did a short series of primetime specials that crossed over with other CBS properties like Survivor not that long ago, but since those aren't shows I tune into and I'm not all that into Drew Carey, there wasn't much draw for me. (It also doesn't help that the daytime show is gluttonous with specials and gimmicks already, I didn't really feel like I was missing anything.)

For me personally, Celebrity Family Feud is a different story, because it offers a much glitzier set (sorry but I much prefer their fancy primetime set to the cheaper-looking regular one we see every day), the same basic gameplay, but instead of ordinary families that aren't accustomed to being on TV, we get celebs that are definitely used to it, and can offer us more opportunities for laughs than we could get with Steve doing all the work. As mentioned, primetime also gives them more airtime.

For comparison, think about Judge Judy. She's been on the air since 1996, which is, what, 23 years now? Far as I know that show is still very highly rated, but they only did a primetime episode once. It was akin to Bob's 50 Years in TV special, with new cases mixed in with biopic stuff, and while it was successful, by all accounts it didn't win the night. That was a shock to me, but in retrospect it makes sense that Judge Judy would work in early afternoons, when the stiffest competition tends to be soap operas and afternoon news, but wouldn't win the night against other primetime programming.

In the same way, I don't think Price quite has the built-in audience they used to, LFaTs that would watch it no matter when or where it is. It's undoubtedly still a success, otherwise there's no way they'd still be paying for Drew Carey, but probably doesn't have the mojo to compete against the current primetime lineups on the other networks (and that's before we ask the question of what it would bump on CBS' current primetime lineup).

Offline blozier2006

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Re: Chances of Prime Time Specials Again?
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2019, 02:11:36 PM »
(Does CBS even have anything to do with Deal? I thought that was NBC's gig.)
Can't recall the source, but I'd seen a post somewhere that Monty Hall was so appalled at the 2003 primetime shows with Billy Bush, that he swore NBC would never be allowed anywhere near Deal ever again.

Online ThomHuge

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Re: Chances of Prime Time Specials Again?
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2019, 02:31:14 PM »
Can't recall the source, but I'd seen a post somewhere that Monty Hall was so appalled at the 2003 primetime shows with Billy Bush, that he swore NBC would never be allowed anywhere near Deal ever again.

Oh...!

For some reason when I saw 3StrikesFan's post, I thought "Deal" was DonD, not LMaD. My fault. Thanks for clarifying.

Offline JayC

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Re: Chances of Prime Time Specials Again?
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2019, 07:28:31 PM »
I always wondered why Wheel of Fortune never tried prime time specials. They could do Celebrity Wheel of Fortune or regular Wheel.
Remember that in the show's popularity height during the 1980s the syndicated version was really a prime time version of the daytime show still running. When they ditched shopping the bonus round and wheel prizes went up in value and the first NYC shows had even more extravagant prizes than normal. More recently $100,000 became the top prize in the early 2000s and they've offered a million dollars for 10 seasons now. It is a little surprising a network primetime version was never tried after the daytime version ended, but Jeopardy only did it once with Super Jeopardy too.

Offline imhomerjay

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Re: Chances of Prime Time Specials Again?
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2019, 08:22:12 PM »
Honestly, I don't think Wheel generally lends itself to a prime-time show beyond being in (in much of the country) prime-time access already. I struggle to put into words quite why, when some of ABC's shows have worked (relative to summer expectations). The best I can come up with is the pacing and format just aren't as adaptable to the "spectacle" approach. You can juice up the numbers, slap in celebrities....but my gut still tells me it doesn't have "it."

Then again, I wouldn't have anticipated Card Sharks fit into that category, and we still need to see the final results, but clearly someone believes there's enough of a hook to make it work.


Offline priac

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Re: Chances of Prime Time Specials Again?
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2019, 10:34:26 PM »
Ok, here goes. Modern day game shows are extremely graphic, tech, prop heavy.  They’re really not “games”, but sort of live action videos that seem to rely on humiliating losing contestants.  I was just flipping the channels and stumbled upon Ellen’s “Game of Games”.   Some poor sap couldn’t name seven spices (or something like that). As a penalty for not knowing, the contestant (pre-strapped in) got spun around on some type of giant mechanical arm (controlled by Ellen herself) and ultimately dunked in a vat of some sort of green goo. 

TPIR is “cerebral” compared to this freakshow masquerading as gameshow. Ellen is getting paid millions, and I’m sure owns a piece, so she’s happy. Plus there’s never shortage of folks willing to make themselves look ridiculous.

Now I have no clue how this show is doing in the ratings. But just for the fact it’s even being run, underscores the fact that society has been systematically dumbed down over the years/decades. The networks figure give em what they want.  Look at the popularity (not to mention immense profitability ) of the reality shows. 

Networks are all divisions of publicly traded conglomerate corporations. Only ratings (ad dollars) matter. Quality is far far down the list. Jeopardy of course is an exception.

I’d love to see Price in prime time but for these and other reasons, I really don’t see it happening.

Bottom line: the taste of viewers (for better or worse) has markedly changed just over the last 5-10yrs.    Just my take.