Author Topic: Is it time to give HYO another try?  (Read 64043 times)

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Offline gamesurf

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Is it time to give HYO another try?
« on: June 05, 2019, 02:51:34 PM »
I’ve been talking via PM with PayingTheRent, who encouraged me to post this thread.

Like The Price is Right itself, G-R.net is an old warhorse. Sure, it’s had its ebbs and flows like everything else, but even after nearly two decades of existence, this site is not only still kicking, but still one of the best TPiR resources on the net, if not the best.

In the site’s heyday, one of the most memorable sections was the Host Your Own subforum. Host Your Own (or HYO) was a special section of the site where members could host and act as contestants playing mock games of The Price is Right.

In its prime, HYO was one of the most creative, inventive places on the site--forum members had a chance to put their own personal touch on the show. Unfortunately as time passed and the site’s demographics changed, many of the forum’s most active members could no longer devote the time or attention they had in the past. This meant the section only served to attract trolls and members who only signed up to play or host HYO and never interacted with others anywhere else, so in the end the mods decided it would be best to shut it down. Like many classic shows, it had a great run but eventually it burnt itself out.

However, over the past two and a half years, the site’s managed to attract a newer generation of posters that have joined and actively participate on the boards. The community has been clipping along and growing in a positive direction. With that in mind… could it be time to give HYO another try?

I know a few others have expressed a desire to see the section return. I've mentioned this to PTR and cu, as well as the rest of the mod team, and they’ve indicated that they are absolutely willing to have a discussion about a possible future of HYO, provided there is enough general forum interest.

So with their blessing, I’d like to open up those questions to the rest of the forum—

Is there enough demand on the site for HYO to make a return? Would there be enough active site members hosting and playing to keep the board active?

If HYO were to come back, how could we make sure it stays active in meaningful ways, instead of attracting people who post just to post? How could we encourage active, quality posters to give the section appropriate attention?
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 04:08:43 PM by PayingTheRent »
Quote from: Mark Goodson
"It's the greatest challenge in the world to invent a new game. For every one you see, every concept that is ultimately refined and developed, a dozen are worked on and not worked on, or almost worked on, or dropped because they don't read any more. We test and hammer and test and hammer...

When you finally get it down so that it looks very very simple, that one has had the most complicated amount of work."

Quote from: Bill Todman
"The sign of a good game, is when you don't have to explain it every day. The key is not simplicity, but apparent simplicity. Password looks like any idiot could have made it up, but we have 14 of our people working on that show. There is a great complexity behind the screen. It requires great work to keep it simple."

Offline gamesurf

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Re: Is it time to give HYO another try?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2019, 02:56:27 PM »
I guess I’ll go first:

I've hosted my own shows elsewhere on another site a few summers ago, and I have some old pricing game graphics on my server collecting dust.  I’d love a reason to blow the mothballs off during the summer months. I was even toying with trying together a mini weekly pricing game tournament in OLIF. But—gotta be honest—I LOVED reading the HYO section. I never participated until after its heyday, (mostly lurked here for years until 2017), but it was the place to go to see fellow community members show off their art, pricing skills, and creative riffs on the show.

So what could HYO specifically offer the forum in 2019?

  • I’ll bet there are a few people in this new crop that have real hosting talents. I know there are one or two others who joined the site recently who were disappointed they never got a chance to participate in its heyday.
  • The summer hiatus is about to start—without the show, there’s a void of Price discussion. HYOs would help keep people active during the summer.
  • A well-done HYO encourages people to think creatively about the show in ways they normally wouldn’t. Creative thinking leads to better discussion.
  • If done right, it could be a great way for people to get to know each other’s personalities a little better; a fun, new way to blend the new guard with members of the old guard

As for how it could be implemented? In addition to the past rules (only one or two shows going on at a time, hosts must get scripts approved by a mod, etc.), here's a few suggestions:
  • hiding the board from non-members, same as the pricing game reviews. While they can be a fun perk of the G-R.net community, HYOs shouldn’t become the only reason for signing up. Better to have the most visible features be focused on “real” TPIR—ideally games like HYO should supplement our talk about TPIR, not replace it.
  • making the section “read only” for accounts that have less than a certain number of posts (100 or 200 or so) or accounts created less than 6 months ago. Posting privileges in the section would unlock once the qualifications are reached. This would cut down on “i clearly didn't read the rules but sign up here” troll posts, help new members get started off on the right foot, and keep a focus on quality participation over a quantity of participation.
  • beginning each thread with a brief recap of the forum rules, just so they are crystal clear for all onlookers in the section.

I also think an overall “less is more” approach would be wise, focusing on quality shows over quantity. Making half-hour episodes the norm could be very beneficial. They’re less of a time commitment for hosts and contestants, and they would encourage focus on polishing a short, current show rather than slapping together a long one. It could even be kept to a seasonal thing, reserved for the summer months to fill the void when CSS and the FPG and general show discussion winds down.

Given the chance, I’d love to see what the community can do. I think with a tight focus, it could be a fun summer activity and a way to celebrate both hosting flair and pricing skills. I’d love to support it if the mods and the rest of the community see fit to give it another go.
Quote from: Mark Goodson
"It's the greatest challenge in the world to invent a new game. For every one you see, every concept that is ultimately refined and developed, a dozen are worked on and not worked on, or almost worked on, or dropped because they don't read any more. We test and hammer and test and hammer...

When you finally get it down so that it looks very very simple, that one has had the most complicated amount of work."

Quote from: Bill Todman
"The sign of a good game, is when you don't have to explain it every day. The key is not simplicity, but apparent simplicity. Password looks like any idiot could have made it up, but we have 14 of our people working on that show. There is a great complexity behind the screen. It requires great work to keep it simple."

Offline silverice878

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Re: Is it time to give HYO another try?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2019, 04:35:18 PM »
I would love to see HYO make a return. I had wanted to make one for a long time, and had even gone as far as to piece one together, but this was right when HYO closed up, therefore, I took my HYO stuff and applied it to the Weekly Pricing Games I've been doing. An HYO return would give me an opportunity to do not only full shows, but to have everybody on the same page. I'm down for it!
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Offline tpir04

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Re: Is it time to give HYO another try?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2019, 04:40:09 PM »
I haven't been a member for very long, compared to some of you (in fact, it will be one year this next Tuesday) but I can tell you that the ultimate dream for the vast majority of us is to get up on stage on TPIR. While that can't happen on a regular basis, HYO can.  Who doesn't want to be a part of ilovesuperball's antics (remember those? Those were gut-busters to read!) Ever wanted a chance to win 100K on Pay the Rent? Here's your chance. Have you wanted to roll that Superball up the ramp and win a brand new car? Now is a perfect opportunity. For others, the real pleasure is in hosting. Ever wanted to throw out the Ten Chances zero rule by putting in a $65 toaster? Here's a great place to do it. Wanted to create a Million-Dollar Plinko, one that can actually be won? Now's your chance. And by the way, remember all the PG ideas you had years ago but never bothered to post them, knowing they could never be used on the show? Well, now you can.

As far as the implementation of an HYO, I fully back gamesurf's suggestions. Especially during the end of the run, HYO became a haven for people who decided to join G-R specifically for HYO and start their own shows, only to get shut down because they never read the rules. By enforcing a read-only period, it will allow newcomers to get a feel for how the HYO operates as a whole. All in all, members, newcomers and veterans alike, need to be reminded that the HYO is a privilege, NOT a right.

With all that said, if done correctly, HYO could make a triumphant return, but only if we are all willing to abide by the rules, and ensure others do the same. If that can be done, then I say,

Let's do it!
CSS: Exacta, 6/3/2019
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Season 16 cash earnings: $62,367
...............................

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Offline EvilChameleon

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Re: Is it time to give HYO another try?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2019, 04:46:57 PM »
As I said to you in PM, last year I hosted 3 separate episodes of TPIR on another website I was a moderator on, completely unrelated to TPIR, and people really had a good time. I did the graphics, the script, the prizes, everything. Unfortunately, the site closed down recently, but I have an entire six game episode scripted and ready to go on my computer.

My pace was one episode every four months, usually at the start of the season, so the first day of Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter.

I sent you some of the custom graphics I made for the show, and I'll post three different ones here too.







Starting with the third episode I even started doing the big doors, complete with cars and prizes behind them...



Oh, and yes, every episode was a Million Dollar Spectacular.

Offline PayingTheRent

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Re: Is it time to give HYO another try?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2019, 05:00:40 PM »
These are some of my recommended conditions for an HYO return (which I am in favor of, by the way):

- As gamesurf said, shut off the section to non-members and initiate an automatic probation period for new members — say, six months — before they may begin participating in the section.  I don’t necessarily believe there should be a set number of posts one must reach to unlock the section, however.  I can see this being abused, plus some members post more frequently than others.  Rather, allow the probation to automatically be lifted after set period of time, and if any member behaves in an unproductive manner, it’s at the discretion of G-R staff to have the offender’s probation reinstated.

- Have more than one moderator overseeing HYO and only allow mods and forum staff to create show threads for confirmed hosts, completely eliminating the issue of trolls trying to start shows without permission.

- 12 hour reply limit for hosts and contestants.  The general rule of thumb has generally been 24 hours for contestants — primarily at the sole discretion of the host — and hosts themselves have much more leeway, sometimes taking days to respond back to their own shows (and I’ve been guilty of this, myself).  However, it’s not 2005 anymore.  The vast majority of us have smartphones that are more than capable of accessing the site, so 12 hours should be plenty of time for most.  If you’re a host and plan to be away from your computer, then consider using graphics that can be created from your phone (and such apps are easily accessible and inexpensive, if not free).  You can even go text-only, there’s nothing wrong with that.  If you’re a host and take longer than 12 hours to reply, the section moderator(s) may take over hosting duties until such time that you return.  Excessive time away from hosting during your show may result in penalties (see next item below). Same for contestants.

- Three Strike System (hosts): If a host abandons their show for a period of 48 hours or longer, this will result in a strike.  If three strikes are accumulated over the course of (two) succeeding shows, the offending member will be placed on probation from hosting further shows, perhaps six months to one year.

- Three Strike System (contestants): Generally, if you miss your turn three times as a contestant, you are out.  This will still apply, however the strike will be applied automatically to the offending member after a period of 12 hours, regardless if the host or next contestant has posted.  If the offending member’s turn remains valid, they may take it at the host’s discretion.  However, their strike will remain.  Three strikes in a given show, the contestant is out.  If this happens over the course of three shows, the offending member will be placed on a probation period of six months to one year from participating in HYO, either as a host or contestant.

I believe these suggestions would go a long ways in taking care of the issues that have plagued HYO.  The faster pace shows move along at, the better.  Also, I believe these rules can allow for two concurrent shows, as well as the hour-long format, provided there is enough participation.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 05:10:35 PM by PayingTheRent »
Pardon my language, but I do believe we all need to calm the f*** down.

Offline Ton80

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Re: Is it time to give HYO another try?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2019, 05:47:54 PM »
I know it's a daunting task, but I believe that new HYO hosts should be required to have their game scripts fully reviewed and approved prior to being allowed to start a show, with a special eye on keeping the show "reasonable" and in the true spirit of The Price is Right.

I don't know about anyone else, but playing Golden Road for a private island in the Bahamas, a Lear jet, and a gold Cadillac just seems.......wrong.
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Offline PayingTheRent

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Re: Is it time to give HYO another try?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2019, 05:56:52 PM »
I know it's a daunting task, but I believe that new HYO hosts should be required to have their game scripts fully reviewed and approved prior to being allowed to start a show, with a special eye on keeping the show "reasonable" and in the true spirit of The Price is Right.

I don't know about anyone else, but playing Golden Road for a private island in the Bahamas, a Lear jet, and a gold Cadillac just seems.......wrong.

I believe script approval was required for the first three(?) shows hosted under the old system (provided those shows were without issues)?

I would go further by requiring all hosts to submit a script, regardless of standing or how many shows you’ve hosted.  Any good host should have a script, anyways.  There’s no harm in providing it beforehand.  In fact, this would need to be required anyway so that a moderator can assume hosting duties should a given host be away for too long.

Furthermore, there should be a limit on how many shows one can host over a given period — perhaps one every three months.  Seeing the same member host show after show becomes tiring and boring.  We don’t need that.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 06:01:53 PM by PayingTheRent »
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Offline TPIRfan#9821

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Re: Is it time to give HYO another try?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2019, 06:41:53 PM »
I'm down to give HYO another try.

However, I tried something similar on the Buy a Vowel Boards, and in the end, the HYO over there just fizzled out. After my game, five other games were hosted, pretty much wrapping up when the summer ended. I wonder, if HYO on this site is brought back, will the hosts able to attract six or nine people consistently and not peter out after the first three shows? There's only one way to find out.
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Offline EvilChameleon

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Re: Is it time to give HYO another try?
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2019, 06:53:04 PM »
The moment we start talking strikes and 12 hour limits instead of 24 is when we lose the spirit and fun of these, and they become more mechanical and robotic.

Hell, I gave my contestants three days on the other site to answer. There was no rush. Nobody ever took more than 24 to answer most of the time, but hey, life happens, and so we should be accepting of that.

Offline ThomHuge

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Re: Is it time to give HYO another try?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2019, 07:06:20 PM »
The moment we start talking strikes and 12 hour limits instead of 24 is when we lose the spirit and fun of these, and they become more mechanical and robotic.

The moment we start talking strikes and 12-hour limits (et al) is when we establish a clear standard for participants, and the games become more efficient and don't drag out for ages.

Hell, I gave my contestants three days on the other site to answer. There was no rush. Nobody ever took more than 24 to answer most of the time, but hey, life happens, and so we should be accepting of that.

Giving your contestants flexibility it one thing. Three days is quite another. Yes, real life happens, but when real life continues to happen and you keep holding up the proceedings, you're ruining it for everyone else. That's true if you're a contestant who takes three days to answer, or a host that lets it go on that long.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 07:08:57 PM by ThomHuge »

Offline PayingTheRent

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Re: Is it time to give HYO another try?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2019, 07:45:47 PM »
I don’t like the idea of a strike system, but that doesn’t invalidate the necessity of it.  Unfortunately, going back to the old way of doing things would almost certainly yield the same results as before, given enough time.

A revamped HYO section with stricter rules that will prevent it from dragging the rest of the site down is a better solution than not having HYO at all, at least in my opinion.

I also want to add that my suggestions are merely that: suggestions.  The power to make/change the rules and reopen HYO does not lie with me, and ideas like the ‘strike system’ I mentioned were brought up here first and have not been discussed elsewhere.  The powers above me have the final call.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 07:52:39 PM by PayingTheRent »
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Offline someguy23475

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Re: Is it time to give HYO another try?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2019, 09:23:28 PM »
Minimum should be 24 hours. Some people work long and irregular shifts, and can’t always check the game on the phone when other matters may be more important.

I used to love hosting way back when (at least a dozen years ago), but that is something I do not have time for these days. I may be interested in playing some games.

Offline Teddy

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Re: Is it time to give HYO another try?
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2019, 09:41:50 PM »
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! I would love to see the HYO section return so I can continue my series.

Some of the guidelines I'd go along with if this were to happen would include:

  • Section open to members only
  • More than one moderator (which I would gladly apply for)
  • Six-month probationary period for new members
  • 3 strike system (but for contestants only)
  • At least a 24-hour time limit for replies (applies to both hosts and contestants; should be adjustable to the host's preferences, because not everyone will check in 12 hours after a reply has been made, and we all have lives outside the forum)

Even after 25 shows, I still have the hosting itch, and hopefully when Season 48 rolls around, we can get it up and running again!

Offline gamesurf

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Re: Is it time to give HYO another try?
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2019, 09:45:56 PM »
Thom's right--it's one thing if it's your own forum and you're the only game in town, but it's another if it means you're holding up another show that's waiting to go on. If a game takes three days without moving forward, that's three days you're depriving others of the chance to play. Especially so if only one or two games are allowed to go on at a time and there are other hosts waiting in the wings.

On the other hand--12 hours is a very fast pace for everybody involved. At bare minimum that means interacting twice a day, at opposite ends of the day, and checking the thread even more often than that. That's a big time commitment, especially if a host is choosing to update the game with graphics or something like that.

I'm in favor of a 24-hour time limit.  If speeding things along is an interest, maybe a prod after 12 hours and a strike at 24, two strikes and you're out, excessive prodding gets a strike, or something like that.

Not a rule suggestion, but a general suggestion: Hosts and contestants should understand that the way they participate can affect their future HYO opportunities. Quality hosting is more than just playing traffic cop, and quality contestant participation is more than than just saying "I'm in".

One problem was the section had in the past was posters who did the bare minimum to get by. When Stan's picking the day's contestants, he doesn't just take everyone who says "I'm in" and then pick players at random--he casts the show. It should be totally okay to give first four preference in Contestant's Row to people who are active in the community, or who prove they're able to answer with timeliness, or who show some creativity when signing ups, or who just have a good reputation. Likewise, if a prospective contestant frequently misses deadlines, or never leaves the HYO section, or only post just to post, there's nothing wrong with a host choosing to calling them down later in the show or not at all. It's their show, after all. Hosts are allowed to be judicious.

I also like the "wait three months before starting your next show" rule. It would help discourage people from hosting, just for the sake of hosting. Friendly competition breeds innovation.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 09:50:15 PM by gamesurf »
Quote from: Mark Goodson
"It's the greatest challenge in the world to invent a new game. For every one you see, every concept that is ultimately refined and developed, a dozen are worked on and not worked on, or almost worked on, or dropped because they don't read any more. We test and hammer and test and hammer...

When you finally get it down so that it looks very very simple, that one has had the most complicated amount of work."

Quote from: Bill Todman
"The sign of a good game, is when you don't have to explain it every day. The key is not simplicity, but apparent simplicity. Password looks like any idiot could have made it up, but we have 14 of our people working on that show. There is a great complexity behind the screen. It requires great work to keep it simple."