What if Bob had hosted The Nighttime PIR in 1985.....

[pricefan18]

Thinking about this revisiting the finale of that show and responding to a comment that was posted in connection to the question of why Bob didn't do that show, in lieu of Tom Kennedy. Obviously anyone here knows why he didn't, he simply didn't want that added obligation on top of his daytime duties, but nonetheless it brought to mind this question. If he HAD, how long a run could it have had alongside its' morning counterpart?

It's been shown several times, from both the Dawson and Combs era Feuds and Wheel in this very same period actually, that a second version of the same show with the same host tends to do as well (and in Wheel's case, ultimately far better), than the one it was launched off of. With Barker being at basically his peak as a host at this time in the mid 80's, I could see it having quite a long run. The only thing I'd wonder is, with the market for shows being what it was at the time (something Kennedy's Price struggled with due in large part to Wheel and Jeopardy's emerging as the nighttime powerhouse they'd be for decades to come), could that have impacted what the show coulda done even with Bob's star power carrying it.

I still think though had he taken that job in conjunction with his normal role in daytime, it coulda only helped the show. Just how long a run it coulda had I am not sure, but I could see it at least reaching into the 90's potentially. What do you all think?

[Alfonzo]

In my market Price was shown at 7:30 PM for the entire season. It's main competition here was the second season of Jeopardy!, which just took over the time slot held many years by Family Feud. Price was, more likely, not going to beat shows thst were just starting to get headway into syndication such as Wheel, Jeopardy, Hour Magazine, etc.

I was a loyal viewer of syndicated Price, but I understood  why Bob didn't host and I actually didn't miss him here. I sincerely doubt his hosting would have helped the ratings any. Tom Kennedy was quite good on the show.

[pricefan18]

In my market Price was shown at 7:30 PM for the entire season. It's main competition here was the second season of Jeopardy!, which just took over the time slot held many years by Family Feud. Price was, more likely, not going to beat shows thst were just starting to get headway into syndication such as Wheel, Jeopardy, Hour Magazine, etc.

Feud was still running in a Best Of series in 85-86 too wasn't it? Just remembering that, that coulda no doubt hampered Price's ability to gain a foothold as well.

And incidentally, what would Price have been paired with in your market? Wheel or something else altogether?

[Alfonzo]

Feud was still running in a Best Of series in 85-86 too wasn't it? Just remembering that, that coulda no doubt hampered Price's ability to gain a foothold as well.

And incidentally, what would Price have been paired with in your market? Wheel or something else altogether?

Feud was still running, but our market had dropped it at the end of its last season of new episodes. Headline Chasers took over Jeopardy's old time slot at 5:30PM.

Actually Price had the perfect partner in my market: The first season of The $100,000 Pyramid. Pyramid actually held its own against Wheel of Fortune and Entertainment Tonight.

[JT]

Price being on for an hour every morning didn't help the '85 nightly TPIR.  It was too much.  Also Wheel and Jeopardy were hitting their stride at the time in prime access making it harder for Kennedy Price to get established.

[imhomerjay]

Of course speculation, but I suspect the outcome might not have been significantly different. It wasn’t that long before that the original nighttime version had faded away. Not blaming the powers that be for giving it another go, but fundamentally it may just have reached the point where an additional version in early fringe or access slots just wasn’t going to work.

The competition from the lightning in a bottle of Wheel and then Jeopardy made it tougher. Nor did having then-fresher competitors for time slots like Entertainment Tonight. Sure, Price snagged some time periods that looked good on paper but sometimes were on stations that struggled against a more dominant competitor.

[Alfonzo]

It should be mentioned that A LOT of game shows premired in syndication in the fall of 1985 (The Price is Right, $100,000 Pyramid, The New Newlywed Game, $ale of the Century, Headline Chasers, Catch Phrase, etc.) Wheel of Fortune had helped knock off some of the older guard of Tic Tac Dough, The Joker's Wild and Family Feud. Another show that had great prime access slots, The PM/Evening Magazine franchise,  was starting to die off because local station managers did not want to provide content for shows when they could simply air a show already packaged. Many producers thought that this was their chance to get a prime access foothold. The one-two punch of Wheel and Jeopardy proved otherwise.

[imhomerjay]

Indeed. It was a free for all of sorts—lots of scrambling, and King World stayed atop the heap. And then there was Oprah—and some parallels in the early fringe slots. History repeating itself in broad strokes.

[SeaBreeze341]

It should be mentioned that A LOT of game shows premired in syndication in the fall of 1985 (The Price is Right, $100,000 Pyramid, The New Newlywed Game, $ale of the Century, Headline Chasers, Catch Phrase, etc.) Wheel of Fortune had helped knock off some of the older guard of Tic Tac Dough, The Joker's Wild and Family Feud. Many producers thought that this was their chance to get a prime access foothold. The one-two punch of Wheel and Jeopardy proved otherwise.

Probably helps explain why I hardly ever saw many gameshows after 1985-1986, which left me with USA and then eventually old-school GSN for my gameshow fix (reruns more than not but better than nothing).  Never expected today's Family Feud to be the one to stop Wheel & Jeopardy's run.  In stopping them I mean beat them in ratings, as WoF and Jeopardy are still around & doing very well.  I'll never forget being saddened over the end of TTD, TJW, and FF in the mid-80s.  Though in my opinion Wink's exit  a year after Jack Barry's passing and a year before Cullen's final run and eventual retirement didn't help the legendary Barry/Enright against the Merv Griffin power duo.

I thought $100,000 did well nationwide, but I can't say the same thing in my area.  It had replaced FF for about four months before being buried elsewhere in favor of the $1,000,000 Chance of a Lifetime.  I thought that the Jim Lange hit was that (at the time) even before being replaced by Win, Lose, or Draw.

At the end of the day, as mentioned King World was just that.  In fact, in my area, Jeopardy & Wheel of Fortune have been on the same spot & channel covering 5 decades (since the 80s into 2020).  Personally, I thought the talk shows were surging.  Fewer game shows, more Oprah, Donahue, Sally, etc.  Not as many first-run gameshows on the networks.

As a result, Bob hosting TPIR instead of Tom Kennedy changes nothing (if not very little).  Out of respect, I could see it lasting a little longer, as in another 12 months. For what it's worth, it was Kennedy running the nighttime one (someone I'd consider on the Mount Rushmore of GS hosts), not some unknown individual

[pricefan18]

Indeed. It was a free for all of sorts—lots of scrambling, and King World stayed atop the heap. And then there was Oprah—and some parallels in the early fringe slots. History repeating itself in broad strokes.

I would point out though, Tic Tac Dough and TJW, were still on the air in 85-86, albeit in what would be their final seasons. So they were in the mix too here, not being completely eliminated just yet.

[pricefan18]

Price being on for an hour every morning didn't help the '85 nightly TPIR.  It was too much.  Also Wheel and Jeopardy were hitting their stride at the time in prime access making it harder for Kennedy Price to get established.

You know, seeing this earlier begged a question of its' own. If say Price had been an hour long from the outset in daytime, right from its' 1972 premiere, would its' original Nighttime counterpart have still lasted 8 years, even airing just once a week vs. daily? Now obviously, even after the daytime show went to an hour in 1975, it still managed to run 5 years after that, but by then it was well-established at night anyway. Could it have still had that same run otherwise? It's possible I imagine given it only again aired once each week, but I still wonder a little bit.

[Alfonzo]

I would point out though, Tic Tac Dough and TJW, were still on the air in 85-86, albeit in what would be their final seasons. So they were in the mix too here, not being completely eliminated just yet.

They might as well have been out. By the 1985-86 both of those shows for the most part had either been moved to fringe or late night time slots or had been dropped from their markets entirely. My local market dropped TTD and TJW in 1984. In New York City those shows went up against early afternoon soap operas in their last season.

Sadly I can understand why. Prime time game shows were starting to give away big money and very expensive prizes. TTD and TJW were stuck in the late 70s and their formula was old hat and stale. $3,000+ in the bonus round wasn't cutting it anymore.

[SeaBreeze341]

One thing I forgot to mention, and in reply to the once a week Price: What if TPIR emulated Match Game / Match Game PM (and the 1986 specials) in terms of having a big-time show once a week.  To be clear, instead of one-half hour primetime show, starting in 1986 or 1987, do an hour show in primetime, with a lot more to be won (more expensive prizes, bonuses, showcases) which I believe was the norm in the 1985-1986 syndicated run.  While I don't know if they would've thought of it, but it would've been nice if there was a syndicated Price Is Right once a week for an hour featuring a $100,000 bonus (similar to the $1 Million bonuses that were done from 2002-2008).

That, I think would've lasted for several years (even with Wheel & Jeopardy and their dominant runs).  Budget issues are just that, and I don't believe you could've had those on CBS until 1990 at the earliest.  I think Bob might have been able to add one more taping as opposed to 5

[pricefan18]

They might as well have been out. By the 1985-86 both of those shows for the most part had either been moved to fringe or late night time slots or had been dropped from their markets entirely. My local market dropped TTD and TJW in 1984. In New York City those shows went up against early afternoon soap operas in their last season.

Sadly I can understand why. Prime time game shows were starting to give away big money and very expensive prizes. TTD and TJW were stuck in the late 70s and their formula was old hat and stale. $3,000+ in the bonus round wasn't cutting it anymore.

That Wink left in 85 and Jack had died in 84 probably didn't help matters (with no disrespect to the dean of hosts Bill Cullen). I would wonder though if Wink had stayed on TTD, if it'd have helped anything there, but given what you just said and the overall market being what it was in 85, it probably wouldn't have.

[pricefan18]

One thing I forgot to mention, and in reply to the once a week Price: What if TPIR emulated Match Game / Match Game PM (and the 1986 specials) in terms of having a big-time show once a week.  To be clear, instead of one-half hour primetime show, starting in 1986 or 1987, do an hour show in primetime, with a lot more to be won (more expensive prizes, bonuses, showcases) which I believe was the norm in the 1985-1986 syndicated run.  While I don't know if they would've thought of it, but it would've been nice if there was a syndicated Price Is Right once a week for an hour featuring a $100,000 bonus (similar to the $1 Million bonuses that were done from 2002-2008).

That, I think would've lasted for several years (even with Wheel & Jeopardy and their dominant runs).  Budget issues are just that, and I don't believe you could've had those on CBS until 1990 at the earliest.  I think Bob might have been able to add one more taping as opposed to 5

Would there have been room for it though? Even after 86 when many shows either left after 1 year or after more? Once a week really wasn't the thing anymore by this time mind you. That had left pretty much around the time the original Nighttime Price went off the air in 80. I think Match Game PM was really the only other one that went just once a week after that (well maybe Name that Tune as well), and it (and Tune) were both gone by the following year. Everything else I think was daily strips. Once Feud and I guess could say Match Game started that trend in 79, everyone else followed suit. Could even argue TJW and TTD had a hand in that from the year before, but I think was more those two.