Golden-Road.net
Studio 33 - Price is Right Discussion => The TALK Is Right => Topic started by: TPIRclass on May 14, 2009, 12:22:56 PM
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Good Morning,
As loyal friends (viewers) to The Price Is Right for the last 32 years, we can honestly appreciate the need for the show to evolve to stay relevant. However, we must say that we TRULY MISS the classic Price Is Right music. For instance, the only classic prize/game music music that was featured was during (Spoiler removed)
Is there any way that we can ask Mr.Stan B. and the powers that be at TPIR to bring the legendary music back so it sounds a little more like the Price Is Right ?
What do you think ?
Please remember not to post anything that might considered a spoiler in this forum. Not everyone gets to see the show when it airs. Thanks. ;)
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Oh,we're sorry. We didn't mean to post what happened on the show. We will have to read up on the spoiler rules. Sorry about that once again.
It's just that so many of the newer music cues do not have that TPIR sound. Its hard to describe but one of the greatest sensory experiences is to hear the classic cues in all of their glory. Wouldn't it be nice if TPIR management would recognize this. It is almost painful to NOT HEAR those wonderful cues that really are apart of the heart and soul of the show.
Thank you again.
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Oh,we're sorry. We didn't mean to post what happened on the show. We will have to read up on the spoiler rules. Sorry about that once again.
It's no problem at all. You're a new poster here, and those things can happen. We just try to keep this section of the board spoiler-free since some people aren't able to watch the show live, but still might want to browse through some threads while on their lunch break or some other free time at work.
And I totally agree with you on the music. Most all of the newer cues just don't have the same life, energy, and emotion the older ones have. Not by a long shot.
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When we hear the classic TPIR music is a heart-warming experience. The come on down and new theme re-makes are excellent and we're very thankful that they kept them. Is there any way to make a kindly and respectful request for them to be returned. They are very comforting to hear and make the Price Is Right seem more like the Price Is Right.
If you watch the purchased video episodes, it is so easy to see how seemless the music tracks seem to be. They aren't edgy,they truly seem to be workable throughout from decade to decade. In fact, many of the clips from the early 70''s that have been retired would fit so nicely today.
Essentially,the new music may be nice, but the classic cues have that TPIR sounds that are so enjoyable and outstanding.
We hope that the TPIR community comes together to ask for the music to be restored.
Thank you once again.
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I agree. The new music sucks.
Also, for future reference "The TPIR" is redundant.
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Write letters. Stan will read them. Tell him many fans who post to golden-road.net also love the legacy cues.
Stan Blits
Music Supervisor
"The Price Is Right"
CBS Television City
7800 Beverly Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90036-2112
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You're right,it is redundant. Sorry about that. :D
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It doesn't make sense. They were playing a ton of classic music a few weeks ago and now they've gone back to playing all this new music again.
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I have no problem with the new music.
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As time goes on, they introduce new music to appeal to a younger audience (you can cite 1976, 1983, 1994 and 2003 as prime examples of this). But at the same time, though, they're keeping some of the old cues that are favored by those who have watched the show for at least half of the time it's been around. That being said, I like all the different cues the same.
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I dunno, I never bought the whole "newer cues must be better because they have to appeal to a younger audience" theory. That might be well what Stan thinks, but it isn't true. I know a ton of young people who like the Beatles for instance, and their music is decades old. I think most everyone would better enjoy a decades old awesome piece of music than some crappy tunless junk just thrown out there because "its new."
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I dunno, I never bought the whole "newer cues must be better because they have to appeal to a younger audience" theory. That might be well what Stan thinks, but it isn't true. I know a ton of young people who like the Beatles for instance, and their music is decades old. I think most everyone would better enjoy a decades old awesome piece of music than some crappy tunless junk just thrown out there because "its new."
You make a very good point, Carlos. I have an older brother who loves the 1960s and 1970s R&B/soul music, especially Motown. I myself prefer the late 70s/early 80s R&B acts like Earth, Wind & Fire, Teena Marie and Jeffrey Osborne, as well as the late, great crooners Gerald Levert and Luther Vandross. Though they all represented eras long gone, their music is still as good now as it was back then. So once again, I back this argument 100%, as I wish to see a balance of old and new cues being played on the show.
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Yeah,it's just that as TPIR came out with new cues over time,they seemed to flow nicely. Some of the music grew on us that we were not sure of at first such as the Fortune Hunter Suite. Yet,lately these rock guitar intensive clips seem like standardized production clips you might hear on a local car commercial or something. Here's hoping too much is not being made of this. It's just that the classic music seems to be part of the DNA of TPIR.
Loyal friends true (as Bob Barker said) to TPIR could be in another room and hear the sound of the music cues and know INSTANTLY that it was TPIR. If the directors would even dig out some of the early classic 70's cues, they might sound refreshingly retro today. The real instruments,the melodies all became part of the puzzle.
In many ways, it's like the light boarder being removed, that was something that is unfortunate because the light boarder (even modernized as it was) is part of the DNA of TPIR.
Thank you very much once again.
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I'm a LFaT of the show. I was born in 1994.
My favorite music from the show was born in the 70s and 80s.
My favorite music period was born in the 70s and 80s.
This is my take on the matter.
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I'm a LFaT of the show. I was born in 1994.
My favorite music from the show was born in the 70s and 80s.
My favorite music period was born in the 70s and 80s.
This is my take on the matter.
I was born in 1993, and I feel the same way. The new cues are utter crap.
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IThe new cues are utter crap.
That is perhaps the best assessment of the newer music cues that I've read!
I think there are two separate points to consider. The first is whether the newer music -- which I consider to be starting with the 1994 package onward -- was composed and performed well and is enjoyable to hear. This is a subjective question, of course; but to my ears, much of the modern material is better defined as "sound" rather than music. Most of these cues lack a discernible melody or musical logo, sound thin (difficult to hear against speaking and audience noise), and rely too heavily on synthetic instruments. Quite the opposite is true of the classic library that was produced by Score Productions.
Point number two is that the newer material constitutes a hodgepodge of tunes rather than a cohesive music library. The classic cues were created to complement each other. There are alternate arrangements of central melodies. Each piece of music sounds as though it comes from the same place and in support of a central design.
Unfortunately, I doubt there will be a change in the status quo. Expressing these concepts to the current administration would be like blowing a dog whistle; they are outside the new producers' range of comprehension.
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I dunno, I never bought the whole "newer cues must be better because they have to appeal to a younger audience theory."
I would say the reasoning behind this is that the 18-49's are more likely to be attracted to the newer music because it sounds like some of the music they listen to on the radio, and the powers that be think that the younger ones won't connect to something that sounds like it was straight out of their parents' or grandparents' times or will reject it because it would sound "uncool" to them and it's a rule of thumb that the children of a particular generation reject their elders' styles because they want to define themselves.
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Maybe it was the skill of the early composers or Johnny O,or bot, but copy and the classic cuts seemed to perfectly jibe. Most copy is about 8 seconds, and the hooks and flourishes in the various suites fit copy perfectly. It was if at times johnny was rapping, or scatting, to the themes. These days it's all yelling over tunes you could not hum or whistle if you tried.
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--Hi!! Yes I do miss those classic music! I wish I could find them to download on my computer for my iPod or Ring Tone?!
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--Hi!! Yes I do miss those classic music! I wish I could find them to download on my computer for my iPod or Ring Tone?!
http://home.comcast.net/~caseyleebuck/
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I'm all the way with all the classic cues of yesteryear. These current cues are a boiling pot of monkeyspit. They make me wanna hurl everytime I hear 'em.
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some of the new music is really good. Kinda sounds like "MDS music". But I do miss the old music as well
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The flow of the classics are really nice.TVC.
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Most of these cues lack a discernible melody or musical logo, sound thin (difficult to hear against speaking and audience noise), and rely too heavily on synthetic instruments.
It's infomercial music. Imagine an announcer saying "Horace Poxley and his Get Rich Quick Now seminar will be coming to the airport Hilton on April 22nd" over that music.
Expressing these concepts to the current administration would be like blowing a dog whistle; they are outside the new producers' range of comprehension.
I like your metaphor. See, it was Mike Malone who established the sound we like so well with those Score Productions cues (if you hear a horn section, it's Score).
To be fair, economics may play a role in the sound of the show. I'm told Kalehoff doesn't work cheap and they may be looking for ways to get new music for less.
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To be fair, economics may play a role in the sound of the show. I'm told Kalehoff doesn't work cheap and they may be looking for ways to get new music for less.
...but a lot of the music the show has been using recently sounds very Kalehoff. I don't know - I guess it's a little more (and I use this term to describe musical definition) "horn-y," if you will, something that has been "signature Kalehoff" since at least '88. A lot of the Karp stuff is the same six notes repeated over and over on random instruments, which is how you can tell Kalehoff's work apart from Karp's (if you can even call Karp's stuff "work"...sounds like someone slammed down on a piano somewhere and recorded it to create most of the Karp stuff).
To reply to the OP, I do miss the classic music, and I have expressed that here many times, as well as outside this message board. I shared that thought with a few of my high school peers today, and they looked at me and (seriously) agreed. This is coming from a bunch of 18-year-old females, and isn't that who they're supposedly trying to attain in terms of demographics these days - 18-49 females?
Tyler
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...but a lot of the music the show has been using recently sounds very Kalehoff.
Yes, much of it is. Unfortunately, it has come from his past work (Tony Danza Show, ABC Golf, CBS Grand, etc.) and is not newly composed music. As price_authority said, Stan probably asked Edd what was available to use, and the previously composed stuff would cost much less than commissioning new pieces and assembling and paying musicians to play them. Although it's all TV music, it takes a special kind of piece to work well on Price. Kalehoff's stuff worked fine for the productions for which they were written, but overall they are out of place on the show. Karp's cues suffer from the same problem - some of the pieces are OK on their own (definitely not all of them, since some are very uninspired) but they just don't have the right mix of memorable melodies, orchestrations, and percussion that made the pre-94 cues fit the show so well.
As for Edd's use of horns, there are a few examples from pre '88 - his pieces used on "Now You See it" and the "Pro Bowler's Tour" are good examples.
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Even Kalehoff's stuff pales to the original Score work. (Wasn't he a part of Score?) It sounds like it has the same root, but the orchestrations are lacking the punch necessary to be Price, and especially that elusive "look and feel" clearly evident in the 80s & 90s episodes.
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Even Kalehoff's stuff pales to the original Score work. (Wasn't he a part of Score?)
The way I understand it, several composers were involved with the original (1972 and '74) Score Productions music. Edd Kalehoff's role in the creation of these packages is a bit murky. Was he responsible for composing or arranging some of the cues -- or was Edd's primary job to oversee the recording sessions and possibly perform keyboard (the Moog synthesizer)?
I have a suspicion that composer Charles Fox (1968 syndicated What's My Line?; 1969 Love, American Style; 1969 syndicated To Tell the Truth) had a hand with some of the early Price Is Right music.
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The way I understand it, several composers were involved with the original (1972 and '74) Score Productions music. Edd Kalehoff's role in the creation of these packages is a bit murky. Was he responsible for composing or arranging some of the cues -- or was Edd's primary job to oversee the recording sessions and possibly perform keyboard (the Moog synthesizer)?
I think that may be the case. Most of Kalehoff's work before the mid- to early-'80s was solely Moog layer after Moog layer, with the occasional tambourine, horn, or guitar added in. Concentration, Tattletales '74, Match Game '73, and, of course, the classic Price is Right cues all relied heavily on the Moog. I think that's why I am so in love with absolutely everything Kalehoff composed or either had a hand in during that era - the Moog synthesizer.
Here's something else that may make the classics better than the newer stuff. In terms of orchestration, the Moog is more rich-sounding than computer-generated synthesizers. Cue 18 (http://home.comcast.net/~caseyleebuck/tpircarmusic.mp3) - a cue that was part of the original Concentration package - is a great example. The first note you hear is played on a Moog synthesizer, and it really packs that punch that made the classic cues stand out among the crowd. Starting with that first note, that cue makes its presence known. It's probably also why Mike Malone and other music supervisors realized those pieces worked so well for big prizes like cars (Big Banana also comes to mind here - and wasn't Bean Stalker partially composed on the Moog, as well?).
The Moog can stand on its own, while the oversynthesized, computerized newer crap like we have today sounds like it was composed as noise. If the Karp cues were composed using actual instruments, I can't tell. The drums sound like they came from a drum machine, and the guitars sound computerized, as well. Just take a careful listen to that 2003 Karp Showcase cue that's floating around, and you may hear what I mean. Real instruments sound a whole lot different.
Tyler
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The way I understand it, several composers were involved with the original (1972 and '74) Score Productions music. Edd Kalehoff's role in the creation of these packages is a bit murky. Was he responsible for composing or arranging some of the cues -- or was Edd's primary job to oversee the recording sessions and possibly perform keyboard (the Moog synthesizer)?
I have a suspicion that composer Charles Fox (1968 syndicated What's My Line?; 1969 Love, American Style; 1969 syndicated To Tell the Truth) had a hand with some of the early Price Is Right music.
We KNOW Kalehoff played the MOOG. I doubt he oversaw anything in the early days -- that was Bob Israel's role. Israel's earliest work was for David Susskind's Talent Associates. Susskind was friends with Goodson, so there's your connection.
It is my understanding that some of the composers used by Score were Charles Fox (the only time he was credited in connection with Score was for TTTT which he co-composed with Paul Alter), Ken Bichel, Jonathan Segal. I believe Carl Brandt also did work for Score. Brandt is a long-time composer and arranger who worked with Earle Hagen on some of the Sheldon Leonard shows.
MandY, can you point me to a Kalehoff tune which has a horn section?
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I'm not MandDY, but I can point you here:
http://tvpmm.com/documents/36.html
Go down to Kalehoff's '98 demos and click on Theme 6. This was used as a cue on the show two days ago, although I can't remember now what for. The Double Dare '88 package is also horn-laden, which can be found on the TVPMM site.
Tyler
EDIT: I completely forgot about Grandeur. That can be found under "WCBS Grand" on the TVPMM site.
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MandY, can you point me to a Kalehoff tune which has a horn section?
The two that I referenced in the previous post:
Now You See It (http://tvpmm.com/documents/161.html) (it's the second player, not "Chump Change")
ABC Pro Bowler's Tour (http://tvpmm.com/documents/415.html)
Note how the middle of the Pro Bowler's Tour theme has a vamp rather similar to the "Cue 19" family. I've always assumed based on the sound and chord progressions that the '74 package was composed by Edd under contract with Score, which could probably furnish the extra $$ for the wide variety of instruments used.
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Now You See It (it's the second player, not "Chump Change")
What are the three words after Kalehoff's name? "... for Score Productions". Even if Kalehoff penned the tune the arrangement has Score written all over it.
ABC Pro Bowler's Tour
I thought it had been determined that this was composed by Gary Anderson and Elliot Schrager. Do you hear a MOOG synthesizer in there? I don't, leading me to question whether Kalehoff was even involved.
http://tvpmm.com/documents/36.html
There's Jim Hynes on trumpet but not a full horn section including trombones a la Score Productions, which made liberal use of trombones.
There had to be an arranger working for Score, probably in obscurity, who gave their work that trumpet/trombone sound.
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Is there any way that we can ask Mr.Stan B. and the powers that be at TPIR to bring the legendary music back so it sounds a little more like the Price Is Right ?
What do you think ?
Please remember not to post anything that might considered a spoiler in this forum. Not everyone gets to see the show when it airs. Thanks. ;)
that is not going to happen.. remember the old way was the wrong way so we need to change everything: the trip "skins" as you call it, the silly showcases, etc..
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I agree, the music has gone down the toilet. A few weeks ago, my wife had some maintenance done on my trumpet, so I thought I'd fire up an episode to play along with. Well besides the main theme and come on down, I maybe recognized 2 of the tunes/cues. I guess I hadn't realized how much they've changed the music until I sat there just waiting for something recognizable to play. Not only that, I tried picking out a melody to play with the new music and everything was just a mess and I quit before I even started.
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I also missed the classic when they play during "Contestants Not Appearing On Stage" part of the show.
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Here's something else that may make the classics better than the newer stuff. In terms of orchestration, the Moog is more rich-sounding than computer-generated synthesizers. Cue 18 (http://home.comcast.net/~caseyleebuck/tpircarmusic.mp3) - a cue that was part of the original Concentration package - is a great example. The first note you hear is played on a Moog synthesizer, and it really packs that punch that made the classic cues stand out among the crowd. Starting with that first note, that cue makes its presence known. It's probably also why Mike Malone and other music supervisors realized those pieces worked so well for big prizes like cars (Big Banana also comes to mind here - and wasn't Bean Stalker partially composed on the Moog, as well?).
The Moog can stand on its own, while the oversynthesized, computerized newer crap like we have today sounds like it was composed as noise.
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Tyler
Thanks for posting that clip in reference to this conversation. Unless my ears deceive me, I'd say that thing was all Moog, except for the tambourine and maybe the bass guitar. It definitely has Kalehoff written all over it.
Now what I don't get is why the new Kalehoff stuff doesn't have this same energy and punch. Unless he was directed at the commissioning to compose music that sounded more like elevator music (gee, I hope to stars he wasn't), I just don't know why his revamps of the show's musical cornerstones ("Walking," "Dig We Must," and "TPiR main theme") just sort of slink onto the scene compared to the older versions that command attention.
Of course, since we were talking about orchestrations and budgets, I wonder if some of the live instruments were replaced with digital stand-ins to make the ticket price affordable. I can understand the choice on those grounds, especially if they were serious about making a break from the old by splashing updated versions of everything at the start of the new Carey era. But the end result pales to what they were replacing.
It's New Coke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke) all over again.
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Yes,the classic music makes the show special and so very enjoyable. Oh,let's hope they keep it going. The new music sounds generic and too "rock guitar similiar."
Loyal Friends In True...In total agreement.
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Unless my ears deceive me, I'd say that thing was all Moog, except for the tambourine and maybe the bass guitar. It definitely has Kalehoff written all over it.
The Concentration music was all Kalehoff.
I just don't know why his revamps of the show's musical cornerstones ("Walking," "Dig We Must," and "TPiR main theme") just sort of slink onto the scene compared to the older versions that command attention.
Of course, since we were talking about orchestrations and budgets, I wonder if some of the live instruments were replaced with digital stand-ins to make the ticket price affordable. I can understand the choice on those grounds, especially if they were serious about making a break from the old by splashing updated versions of everything at the start of the new Carey era. But the end result pales to what they were replacing.
Could it be that when Score was involved you got pretty much a full orchestra, and when they're not you get largely synth augmented by the odd trumpets, flutes/piccolos, a harp and guitars? The percussion seems to be 100% synthesized which I can't stand. Outside of Concentration, Tattletales and CBS Card Sharks I don't think the Kalehoff-only stuff holds up (Trivia Trap/MGHSH/various TPIR).
Kalehoff still commands top dollar for his work, I'm told.
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I can tell you all don't like having your cheese moved.
Actually, I'm not missing them. They sound old and do not have the punch they did when they were first produced. The show needs some kick ass music to intoduce a brand new car or three trips (and yes, I do favor the use of the video screens). If you tried to put any classic tunes behind these prizes you will find they do not have the same effect they used to, ergo why they are retired.
Try it sometime when you are watching the show. Play the classic clips found online along with the show. It will not have the same emotional response as the newer cues do.
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The classic cues may not have the same effect they used to, but most of the new cues have no effect whatsoever.
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Actually, I'm not missing them. They sound old and do not have the punch they did when they were first produced. The show needs some kick ass music to intoduce a brand new car or three trips (and yes, I do favor the use of the video screens). If you tried to put any classic tunes behind these prizes you will find they do not have the same effect they used to, ergo why they are retired.
Wow. I don't think I could possibly disagree more strongly with that statement. Most of the newer cues -- and especially most of the newer car cues -- are practically lifeless. They can't hold a candle to things like The Beanstalker or The Big Banana, which start with a huge rush of energy and never let up.
Try it sometime when you are watching the show. Play the classic clips found online along with the show. It will not have the same emotional response as the newer cues do.
I do. Frequently. And you are completely wrong.
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Wow. I don't think I could possibly disagree more strongly with that statement. Most of the newer cues -- and especially most of the newer car cues -- are practically lifeless. They can't hold a candle to things like The Beanstalker or The Big Banana, which start with a huge rush of energy and never let up.
Steve, I'm with you. Practically every new car cue (that is, any cue introduced from '94 onward) used in today's era of TPIR is absolutely lifeless.
**POTENTIAL SPOILERS FOLLOW**
The car cue they used today that wasn't the Spelling Bee car cue was a prime example of this lifelessness.
**POTENTIAL SPOILERS END**
Actually, I'm not missing them. They sound old and do not have the punch they did when they were first produced.
Really? Say "A NEW CAR!" behind this (http://home.comcast.net/~caseyleebuck/tpircarmusic.mp3), and then say it behind this (http://fileden.com/files/2006/10/21/307397/fullthrottle.mp3) (music you may consider "kick-ass," as you put it). I beg to differ that music loses its energy over a time period - Cue 18, Bean Stalker, Big Banana, Starcrossed...they have all kept their energy since the day they were produced.
Play the classic clips found online along with the show. It will not have the same emotional response as the newer cues do.
You are exactly right about this. I don't have a gag reflex when I hear the classic cues.
Tyler
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Play the classic clips found online along with the show. It will not have the same emotional response as the newer cues do.
Right. The classic cues don't make me feel as if I'm in an elevator.
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I personally prefer the classic cues over the newer ones.
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Most of the newer cues -- and especially most of the newer car cues -- are practically lifeless.
It's infomercial music, dude. Infomercial music. "Dr. Percy Hargitay and his Cleanse Your C**** Naturally seminar will be coming to the airport Hilton on Sunday, June 14 at seven pm. Don't miss it!"
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LOL :D Price_authority - amazing
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One Cue I would love to find a clean copy of is one of the early Cues used in the 1972-1975 era of the show which is the main Price Is Right theme but with an alternate Moog arrangement. Those of us who own the DVD Box-Set it is the cue used in the 5 Price Tags game on disc #2 or #3 where the prize was an air-conditioner.