Author Topic: Banned From Chat  (Read 18432 times)

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Offline GuyWithFace

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Re: Banned From Chat
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2015, 12:34:08 AM »
Hm. Just because one can be a moderator does not always mean that they should.

This is true, I even have the chat log as proof.
I say post the relevant portions.

Torgo asks if I have a problem with his moderating during the SCSD, and says "Because you can join [OP] if you do."
Yes, because how dare someone have an issue with how a moderator does things. :roll:
« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 12:45:35 AM by GuyWithFace »
The above is my opinion and mine alone.

To answer your questions: yes, I am a guy and yes, I have a face. (I also have the occasional spurt of weirdness.)

Quote from: thepriceis_J
People are tired of the f**kery and drama, but if we'd actually talk to each other sometimes instead of a whole bunch of private conversations with other people, it'd go a long way to perhaps fixing the problems most seem to see in the site.

Offline Mr. Weatherman

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Re: Banned From Chat
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2015, 12:44:02 AM »
Yes, because how dare someone have an issue with how a moderator does things. :roll:



When GWF has something to say, it's real. I applaud you, sir. ;)
Pardon my language, but I do believe we all need to calm the f*** down.

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Offline TPIRFan2000

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Re: Banned From Chat
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2015, 12:46:52 AM »
Quote
[Grade_A23]: RATTY
[G-R Daytime Chat]: Grade_A23 has left at 11:38 am
[G-R Daytime Chat]: Grade_A23 has left at 11:38 am
[Torgo]: no new user knows our nicknames
[wildbill0962]: woah
[prizes22]: Yeah, between that and forking, that's too much
[UniquePerspective]: what'd he do
[Schfifty]: ...I think that was a little uncalled for.
[prizes22]: Uncalled for?
[silverice878]: Why did you kick Grade A?
[Schfifty]: I don't want to talk further about it, but I just feel... yeah...
[prizes22]: Suspicions it's Mr. X again
[prizes22]: Number of reasons

few minutes later
Quote
[Torgo]: Schfifty
[Torgo]: do you have a problem with my moderating
[Torgo]: because you can join A23 for all I care
[Torgo]: oh look, another PM
[Schfifty]: I don't have a problem with it.
[G-R Daytime Chat]: Schfifty has left at 11:43 am (I can confirm his ban reason was "I DO" or something similar to that, even though it doesn't show in the chat log)
[G-R Daytime Chat]: Schfifty has left at 11:43 am
[OneBidTris]: I don't think you should've banned Schfifty.
[Torgo]: I don't care what you think
[Guint]: Schfifty should've been banned a while ago
« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 12:49:54 AM by TPIRFan2000 »
I hadn't really thought about this before, but the reality of death means that every day there are less people in the world than the day before.  In reality there are many more people in the world than this but for illustration: If one day there are 1000 people in the world and the next day 55 people die, now there are 945 people in the world. if 30 more die the next day now there are 915 people in the world. So we'll eventually become extinct as will all creatures as the same reality applies to dogs, cats, horses etc.

Offline Mr. Weatherman

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Re: Banned From Chat
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2015, 12:52:32 AM »
Well, that's...interesting. Again, I don't participate in chat, so any thoughts and opinions expressed here are based purely on what I've seen on the boards. With that being said, this is no longer an argument I'm interested with participating in, so yeah...

If you'll excuse me...

:pint:
Pardon my language, but I do believe we all need to calm the f*** down.

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Offline GuyWithFace

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Re: Banned From Chat
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2015, 01:05:23 AM »
I don't participate in chat, so any thoughts and opinions expressed here are based purely on what I've seen on the boards.
For the record, neither do I -- either I forget about chat entirely, or end up sleeping past Noon.

[chat logs]
This tells me everything I need to know. I thank you, sir.

Quote
[Torgo]: no new user knows our nicknames
So at no time can a new user have previously been a lurker (whether for days, weeks, months, or years) and hence picked up on the nicknames? :roll: Suspicions of a duplicate account or not, this is a rather rash assumption, sir.

Quote
[OneBidTris]: I don't think you should've banned Schfifty.
[Torgo]: I don't care what you think
While I have not filled the position myself, I feel reasonably certain that as a moderator, you should care what people think. If someone questions your moderation, you should perhaps double-check yourself and see if the things being questioned have any merit. Responding as you did was, I feel, rather the wrong way to go about it.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 01:15:47 AM by GuyWithFace »
The above is my opinion and mine alone.

To answer your questions: yes, I am a guy and yes, I have a face. (I also have the occasional spurt of weirdness.)

Quote from: thepriceis_J
People are tired of the f**kery and drama, but if we'd actually talk to each other sometimes instead of a whole bunch of private conversations with other people, it'd go a long way to perhaps fixing the problems most seem to see in the site.

Offline Grade_A23

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Re: Banned From Chat
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2015, 01:08:09 AM »

few minutes later
Wow!! I think he shouldn't be a mod for a minute. Anyone agree with me?

Offline Schfifty

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Re: Banned From Chat
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2015, 01:09:38 AM »
Thank you for sharing the logs, TF2000.

And, again, let me just say wholeheartedly that I didn't purposely intend to stir up trouble. I said something I didn't mean to say. I only thought it was weird that somebody would be banned for not being familiar with nicknames, and it came out the wrong way. I'm sorry if I offended Torgo, and with all due respect, hope he and others don't take this too personally. I'm not trying to go a bad route here, but I understand that what I did was probably wrong and won't happen again.

While I have not filled the position myself, I feel reasonably certain that as a moderator, you should care what people think. If someone questions your moderation, you should perhaps double-check yourself and see if the things being questioned have any merit. Responding as you did was, I feel, rather the wrong way to go about it.

To be honest, I think what happened was also a combination of acting as a moderator, and recapping the show at the same time. It can be a stressful job, and that certainly could be to blame.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 01:17:17 AM by Schfifty »
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Offline GuyWithFace

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Re: Banned From Chat
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2015, 01:19:42 AM »
To be honest, I think what happened was also a combination of acting as a moderator, and recapping the show at the same time. It can be a stressful job, and that certainly could be to blame.
Fair point. Perhaps the recapper should not be a moderator in chat, if only so they can remain focused on recapping the show?

Quote
[Torgo]: Schfifty
[Torgo]: do you have a problem with my moderating
[Torgo]: because you can join A23 for all I care
[Torgo]: oh look, another PM
[Schfifty]: I don't have a problem with it.
[G-R Daytime Chat]: Schfifty has left at 11:43 am (I can confirm his ban reason was "I DO" or something similar to that, even though it doesn't show in the chat log)
Perhaps Torgo thought Schfifty was responding to the PM remark? That would explain the ban reason being along the lines of "I DO"...although based on the above, it does look like Torgo would have banned Schfifty no matter what his response.

(My point remains that "Questioning how a moderator acts and reacts? BANNED!" is not particularly a good way to go about things. Further, like JustBecause below, I do not believe you have anything to apologize for.)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 01:30:14 AM by GuyWithFace »
The above is my opinion and mine alone.

To answer your questions: yes, I am a guy and yes, I have a face. (I also have the occasional spurt of weirdness.)

Quote from: thepriceis_J
People are tired of the f**kery and drama, but if we'd actually talk to each other sometimes instead of a whole bunch of private conversations with other people, it'd go a long way to perhaps fixing the problems most seem to see in the site.

Offline JustBecause

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Re: Banned From Chat
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2015, 01:25:52 AM »
Wow!! I think he shouldn't be a mod for a minute. Anyone agree with me?

Technically, he isn't a mod. He's the official recapper, which means he gets mod status in the recap section and in chat (which, again, I believe is the crux of the issue). If you remove the mod in chat status from the "False Moderators," (Torgo, Guint, Adam, etc.) and allow them to focus on their respective sections, I think there'd be fewer issues... just like GWF said.

And let me just say wholeheartedly that, again, I didn't purposely intend to stir up trouble. I said something I didn't mean to say. I only thought it was weird that somebody would be banned for not knowing nicknames, and it came out the wrong way. I'm sorry if I offended Torgo, and with all due respect, hope he and others don't take this too personally. I'm not trying to go a bad route here, but I understand what I did was probably wrong and won't happen again.

Schfifty, let me say that I don't think you did anything wrong. You were doing the right thing; it just happened to be the perfect storm of stuff beforehand for it to backfire.

Offline thepriceis_J

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Re: Banned From Chat
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2015, 02:33:48 AM »
Technically, he isn't a mod. He's the official recapper, which means he gets mod status in the recap section and in chat (which, again, I believe is the crux of the issue). If you remove the mod in chat status from the "False Moderators," (Torgo, Guint, Adam, etc.) and allow them to focus on their respective sections, I think there'd be fewer issues... just like GWF said.
There's a problem with that solution. Most, almost all, of the global moderators aren't always around whereas Torgo, Guint, Fireball, and Adam are. To take away their mod powers would leave no mod in the chat and that just can't be. These "False Moderators" as you call them are important since most of the, I guess, real mods aren't around. I assume Marc, John, Steve, cu, Alfonso, and Army either are working during the show or their interest in watching the show live isn't there. Also, some of the mods in chat aren't even mods anymore. Frank15 and FPGWillyT still have mod status and once again, thank goodness they do. Someone needs to oversee the chat and not one person can do it everyday. Giving the chat mod powers to all mods means everyone works together to help maintain the chat.

I think the problem people are seeing is that prior to this shift in power there were hardly any mods in chat. It was usually just Adam on most days and when he was lucky Frank or cu was available to help. And before Adam or cu or Jess became mods there was typically no one in chat at all. Now all of a sudden, there are actual mods there who aren't going to let everything fly like they used to and it's a problem since people aren't used to it. That said, I don't agree with everything that's been done and you'll see that below.


First off, I've only perused this thread. The reasoning as I understood it from Torgo was that GradeA_23 had quite a bit of knowledge of slang here on this site for someone who just joined. In the past, we've had members who have acclimated very quickly to the climate of the site, only to be discovered that they were in fact a former banned member sneaking in (and thereby breaking another one of those rules you all have quoted in this tread). That's a no-no and does deserve discipline. Unfortunately, it perhaps seems that GradeA_23 is on the up and up and that the ban was made in haste. But I certainly don't think it wasn't fully unjustified.

First off I was attacking u at all! I just asked u a simple question! Second off u had no right to ban me in chat because First off I wasn't warned that I would be banned and second their wasnt any behavior coming from me that would justify a ban! So someone needs to me unban me from chat please.
While I understand your intent and wouldn't consider this an attack, I do think it was inappropriate to contact him on Twitter about an issue you had on this site. You had the options of PMing him (which I know you did) or making a thread as you have now.

I did not agree with the Schfifty one. He was simply wondering why GradeA_23 was banned and "because I said so" isn't a good reason and banning him certainly doesn't quell the situation. It just adds fire. I don't care what rule 19 says, there's some cases where one person's definition of appropriate isn't the right one.

While I'm here, I'll state that I did not and do not agree with the ban on scoot either. Scoot has not been allowed been back into the chat after what I considered an actual unjustified ban. He did indeed state his displeasure for boats in caps and exclamations, but I don't think he was given proper warning before recieving such a harsh penalty. I hope that is rescinded.

Also, I don't know how banning works in the chat (perhaps a tutorial with pictures would be nice for us non-mods to see), but it's my understanding that mods do not have the ability to time out the duration of the bans they hand out. It would be nice if they'd be given such power so that the penalty of a ban is not the same for every infraction, whether it be little or small.
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Offline Grade_A23

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Re: Banned From Chat
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2015, 03:54:52 AM »
There's a problem with that solution. Most, almost all, of the global moderators aren't always around whereas Torgo, Guint, Fireball, and Adam are. To take away their mod powers would leave no mod in the chat and that just can't be. These "False Moderators" as you call them are important since most of the, I guess, real mods aren't around. I assume Marc, John, Steve, cu, Alfonso, and Army either are working during the show or their interest in watching the show live isn't there. Also, some of the mods in chat aren't even mods anymore. Frank15 and FPGWillyT still have mod status and once again, thank goodness they do. Someone needs to oversee the chat and not one person can do it everyday. Giving the chat mod powers to all mods means everyone works together to help maintain the chat.

I think the problem people are seeing is that prior to this shift in power there were hardly any mods in chat. It was usually just Adam on most days and when he was lucky Frank or cu was available to help. And before Adam or cu or Jess became mods there was typically no one in chat at all. Now all of a sudden, there are actual mods there who aren't going to let everything fly like they used to and it's a problem since people aren't used to it. That said, I don't agree with everything that's been done and you'll see that below.


First off, I've only perused this thread. The reasoning as I understood it from Torgo was that GradeA_23 had quite a bit of knowledge of slang here on this site for someone who just joined. In the past, we've had members who have acclimated very quickly to the climate of the site, only to be discovered that they were in fact a former banned member sneaking in (and thereby breaking another one of those rules you all have quoted in this tread). That's a no-no and does deserve discipline. Unfortunately, it perhaps seems that GradeA_23 is on the up and up and that the ban was made in haste. But I certainly don't think it wasn't fully unjustified.
While I understand your intent and wouldn't consider this an attack, I do think it was inappropriate to contact him on Twitter about an issue you had on this site. You had the options of PMing him (which I know you did) or making a thread as you have now.

I did not agree with the Schfifty one. He was simply wondering why GradeA_23 was banned and "because I said so" isn't a good reason and banning him certainly doesn't quell the situation. It just adds fire. I don't care what rule 19 says, there's some cases where one person's definition of appropriate isn't the right one.

While I'm here, I'll state that I did not and do not agree with the ban on scoot either. Scoot has not been allowed been back into the chat after what I considered an actual unjustified ban. He did indeed state his displeasure for boats in caps and exclamations, but I don't think he was given proper warning before recieving such a harsh penalty. I hope that is rescinded.

Also, I don't know how banning works in the chat (perhaps a tutorial with pictures would be nice for us non-mods to see), but it's my understanding that mods do not have the ability to time out the duration of the bans they hand out. It would be nice if they'd be given such power so that the penalty of a ban is not the same for every infraction, whether it be little or small.
Well I come to the site every and just look at the forums about the show esp the one on the line-up that happen everyday so thats why ive picked up on some slang as a guest before i finally decided to join on Friday. I saw the chat option and I was like oh they chat about the show when it comes on at 11 so I wanted to chat about it. Im a LFAT of the show who has watched it every since I was 4 yrs old. My grandmother hooked me on to the show. I did PM Torgo twice today but I got no answer thats why I tweeted him and I PMed a few Mods also but no answer too. Im sorrry I tweeted him but I was really pissed. Thats why I started this thread because I totally thought my ban was totally unfair and they should lift the ban.

Offline Torgo

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Re: Banned From Chat
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2015, 09:59:16 AM »
Schfifty has been unbanned, as have the two users previously "caught in the revolving door": pannoni1 and Chad1787.
Torgo has left the building. John and I never really cared for the way he presented himself.

Offline Prizes

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Re: Banned From Chat
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2015, 12:21:00 PM »
Okay, where to start with this one? First and foremost, regardless of what you think, my apologies and regret as a moderator to letting this situation get to this level of chaos.

As for the chatlogs, I should give my stance on these, since, well, they're the important precursor to this thread. I will say though, that moderators can unban users at will with a given command, that I forgot about until last night, hattip to CU.

On the first ban, it was unfortunate element of circumstance on Grade_A23's end of matters. Recently, we have had a LOT of members coming in, claiming to be 'new', but wind being someone who was banned, for just cause, finding a backdoor into the chat. These members mysteriously know a ton about the site's inner workings, nicknames, etc. I would not at all say that it is an abuse of power, if an accidental banning, in lieu of circumstances. Given the frequency of this happening of late, suspicion levels are always high. I do apologize on behalf of the staff for a misunderstanding of your identity. However, as JJ pointed out, Grade's not squeaky clean in all this either, having gone to not only Twitter, but a personal, work account of Torgo. There were alternate paths, and that one was likely the least classy of them.

Instead, PM Torgo, PM me, PM somebody. I'm usually online if you've got an issue with something with respect to the chat (heck, forums too), be it a banning, something someone said to you, etc. I'll hear out your problem, and try to work out a solution, aside from blatant trolling, in which case I'll get an admin involved. If your status is in limbo, as in confirming if you are another member or not, my response is likely to be delayed until either a moderation team/trusted panel comes to a consensus, or I as an individual reach a verdict. Yesterday, we had the mod team, and it was pretty clear across the board you were someone else. If nothing else, that teaches you were are human as well and make mistakes. The actions taken yesterday truly were an imperfect story and should not be held against anybody, from those banned, doing the banning, etc., nor should it be seen as representative of moderation efforts as a whole, from any particular user with ban abilities in chat. In that sense, I agree with JustBecause, wholeheartedly.

As for Schfifty's ban, this gets a bit more complicated. Nobody agrees this should have been a permanent ban, and in fact, when it was delivered, it was intended to be a one show/rest of show ban. I can understand some of the reactions you may have to this action; however, it is slightly misguided. Furthermore, the reasons that he was banned were not solely based upon the quoted section of 2000's transcript. To claim otherwise, not that anyone has, would be disingenuous. Guint and I were discussing member behavior as well, and came to the conclusion, for this show, Schfifty was violating the one unwritten rule of message boards everywhere: Don't suck. No, not you as an individual, but in this case, individual contributions to the chat were deemed not to be of chat standard.

As we enter a new era of Golden-Road, one where I'd like to get Mike and Drew involved (and where I have some third-party connects to the former) quality and maturity will have to be emphasized. However, the other matter was such that Schfifty appeared, notice I did not say was, to be undermining Torgo's authority to ban this user. Neither of these actions is ban worth on its on. Combined together, however, and it is a separate story.

While I respect people's opinion's about disagreeing why certain people should not have been banned, and need to be unbanned, that is rather uncouth of the members of this board. It stands highly of backseat moderation, and I would like to suggest this not take place on a public level. To call individuals false moderators, and claim abuses of powers, are matters that you should direct to me, CU, or Steve. It has no business out in the open like this. I've had many times when I've had issues with moderators and those in authority before, but this approach rarely works--for those that know me closely, you might know a good example of what I mean. If other members had issues, this likely should have been directed to me through private message. The only one I cannot give comment about, to an adequate degree, is PriceBusterXL's. This was Adam's decision, and I'll leave him to explain that.

Let's let this one go. Most members concerned about banning, besides PriceBuster, for the aforementioned reason, should be unbanned. However, Grade_A23, while not still absolutely still banned, will be subject to review for a different reason; not as a repeat user, which is my mistake, but for personal Twitter harassment, with irrefutable evidence. Once a decision is made, later tonight, to have the ban rescinded or not, this user will be given a personal message about his future in the chat. 

Let's move on, unless you want to discuss my post, and the site's actions going forward a bit, as it concerns show connections, overall quality, and so forth. The part of matters, in fairness, is previously undiscussed, on a broader scale, and warrants further messages.

As for how banning goes in chat: You click on the user's username, on the righthand side of chat. From there, you get a drop down box, that gives options of Ban/PM/Ignore/etc. If you click ban, you get the option of banning by room, the chat itself (for chats with multiple rooms), or  by IP. Above that is a message where you state your ban reason. Then you click ban, on the bottom middle part of such a screen, almost as if sending a private messaging to someone, and the user is banned.

PM me if you want to go into chat so I can make an image by image description of how this works, for our visual learners. I won't actually ban you, but I need another member to demonstrate the action steps, get the screenshots, upload, and edit them into this post.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 12:33:00 PM by Prizes »
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Offline Roadgeek Adam

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Re: Banned From Chat
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2015, 12:51:25 PM »
Let me start with the fact that this entire discussion shows a lack of the ability in technology. On many chat technologies, we have the ability to kick, not ban, which is meant as a "I am getting a point across but not banning you." The current software has a time ban option, but that's only for Chelsea, Marc and John as administrators. If we had that, alone, we can still make our points, but the technology would quickly let people back in.

As for the red herring in the room, lemme just state that PriceBusterXL's kickban was basically trying to get a point of across of behaviors that should not be accepted in chat, especially after multiple warnings. It should really have been timed or just a kick in general, because people will understand what the point being made was, and I made it quite clear that a point was being made when I kickbanned him.

As for the power trip theory, let me just state that in general, the site has needed some extra moderation for a while and while I don't think that someone needs to be kicked for disagreeing, there was justification in the ban on Grade_A23 and because we have a long history of people who will make new accounts and be blatantly the same poster. That said, I don't think the solution is to rip Jess, cu, Torgo, Guint or myselfs faces off. The solution is to ask for the technology to be upgraded to that we can ironically get some extra power in being able to kick or timeban people so it's not permanent. We don't have a solution otherwise for the revolving door disasters like what pannoni and Chad went through.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 12:57:12 PM by Roadgeek Adam »
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Offline Prizes

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Re: Banned From Chat
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2015, 01:05:15 PM »
That said though, Adam, the kicks are set for 999999999 days, though I'm not quite sure why. That badly needs to be fixed.

My wishes of importance, that everybody in this thread should want, for a mix of reasons: As Adam said, moderators need to be able to control the time out of the chat room, from like 1 second joke bans, an hour for rest of show bans, a week for poor behavior, lifetime bans for Shaffer, just to name a few examples. Furthermore, we as moderators need the ability view IPs, at the bottom right corner of posts, as admins currently do. This would easily clear up any confusion anyone has about members repeating, as it'd be a simple ID match, and would have fixed yesterday's problem before any of this even started.
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