Time for a $500 minimum in Punch?

[TPIRfan#9821]

Getting called on down without getting on stage counts as a game show appearance. I would have loved to win one of the item up for bids and had something more than $300.

This conversation made me think about the modern Wheel of Fortune layout, where when everything is at least $500, there's not really much exciting except for the explicit big wedges.

I still think $500 is too much, at most you want a minimum to be $250 with more $500, but going up to $500 homogenizes the board too much.

[SteveGavazzi]

I think there should be a bonus for getting a good amount of the punches because there are times when I am thinking watching this game why would anyone want to win all the punches

That makes absolutely no sense.

[PriceFanArmadillo]

Putting any thought at all into whether the smallest number on the Punchboard should be $100 or $250, or even $500, is a complete waste of time.  It really doesn't make any difference to the viewer, it's all bad television as long as it's not the last draw, and the contestant probably isn't seeing any of it after paying tax on their IUFB anyway.

[Combs]

I've been saying the cash amounts should be updated since Bob was there. $50, $100, and $250 made sense in the late 70s and the 80s, but those amounts are almost nothing now, especially after taxes and with high inflation.

$500 (10)
$1,000 (10)
$2,500 (10)
$3,500 (10)
$5,000 (5)
$10,000 (3)
$25,000 (2)

I'd also bring back the (4) Second Chances with (1) each for the four lowest amounts. ($32,500 for the max)

Regarding Plinko, I'd replace the outer $100 slots with $2,500, which is what the 1994-1995 Davidson show did. I'm surprised that never made it to daytime either.

[jhc2010]

I think the second chances are gone for good. They affect the timing of the game too much.

[pannoni1]

My distribution would be, as SuperSweeper previously suggested:

(10) $250
(10) $500
(10) $1000
(10) $2500
(5) $5000
(3) $10,000
(2) $25,000

This is much more in line, especially for the sub-$10K amounts, regarding how much a dollar in 2023 (and hopefully over about the next decade or so) is worth compared to 1979. $250 is one percent of the top prize and begins with the same three digits, so that would be my minimum. Just like during the days when $10,000 was the top prize, there's three slips for the top prize and three for the second highest prize, something that should have been done immediately since the corresponding Big Wheel bonus values were adjusted accordingly. We're back to the classic distribution pattern we had for most of the Barker era. Save the $500 minimum for primetime specials or Big Money weeks.

But $250 is still a viable minimum even when Wheel's minimum value is $500. After all, when the $50 minimum was first established, save for a brief stint on Bob Goen's Wheel, the Punchboard's minimum was half of what Wheel's minimum was at the time, and this would follow suit.

[JT]

My distribution would be, as SuperSweeper previously suggested:

(10) $250
(10) $500
(10) $1000
(10) $2500
(5) $5000
(3) $10,000
(2) $25,000

This is much more in line, especially for the sub-$10K amounts, regarding how much a dollar in 2023 (and hopefully over about the next decade or so) is worth compared to 1979. $250 is one percent of the top prize and begins with the same three digits, so that would be my minimum. Just like during the days when $10,000 was the top prize, there's three slips for the top prize and three for the second highest prize, something that should have been done immediately since the corresponding Big Wheel bonus values were adjusted accordingly. We're back to the classic distribution pattern we had for most of the Barker era. Save the $500 minimum for primetime specials or Big Money weeks.

But $250 is still a viable minimum even when Wheel's minimum value is $500. After all, when the $50 minimum was first established, save for a brief stint on Bob Goen's Wheel, the Punchboard's minimum was half of what Wheel's minimum was at the time, and this would follow suit.

I like this distribution a lot.  At $2,500 you would see some people go for it and some people keep it just like when someone punched $1,000 in the 70s/80s. 

[Prizes]

My distribution would be, as SuperSweeper previously suggested:

(10) $250
(10) $500
(10) $1000
(10) $2500
(5) $5000
(3) $10,000
(2) $25,000

This is much more in line, especially for the sub-$10K amounts, regarding how much a dollar in 2023 (and hopefully over about the next decade or so) is worth compared to 1979. $250 is one percent of the top prize and begins with the same three digits, so that would be my minimum. Just like during the days when $10,000 was the top prize, there's three slips for the top prize and three for the second highest prize, something that should have been done immediately since the corresponding Big Wheel bonus values were adjusted accordingly. We're back to the classic distribution pattern we had for most of the Barker era.

This is good stuff, and I like the distribution for the reason JT said. Really sound logic too.

The real reason for my post? I just want to follow your concept up with what this means mathematically, in the budgetary, logistical sense there too. Your proposed punchboard at its onset has an average expected value of $2,950 on the first punch. $2,060 is the average value of the current first punch. When you view it like that, assuming 4 punches won, as is typically the case, that's around mid $3K extra per playing ((2950-2060)*4). With Punch played at a projected 15 times a year, at an assumed game rate average increase of $3,560, we're looking at a seasonal value change of $53,400 (3560*15).

Which I tend to believe is absolutely viable, I have that estimated to be 1/280th of their seasonal budget, estimated at $15M. The prize budget is probably a tiny bit more than $15M but it's easiest to explain since round numbers. In any case, that's about an extra two-thirds of an episode to produce by costs. Not bad at all. Absolutely checks out.

[MSTieScott]

As the saying goes, "Opinions Punch a Bunch distributions are like [a certain posterior body part]..."

Your proposed punchboard at its onset has an average expected value of $2,950 on the first punch. $2,060 is the average value of the current first punch.

But expected value isn't all that relevant to Punch a Bunch. As soon as most contestants find a slip worth $5,000 or more, they're going to stop, and the budget isn't impacted by how much below the average the other slips are. No matter how many or how few of them there are, the only interesting thing about the game is the $2,500 slip, because that's the only number that invites a difficult decision (most contestants aren't calculating the odds of getting something equal or better from a later punch).

I added up all of Punch a Bunch's payouts from seasons 46–51 (excluding four playings where the distribution was wildly changed for a special occasion) and got an average payout of $3,427. It makes sense that the actual payouts would be higher than the expected value of one punch.

And as we know, the show doesn't schedule games based on their expected yearly impact on the prize budget and then leave them be. When the budget gets out of control, individual games either receive less expensive prizes or become more difficult to win. If a Punch a Bunch distribution made it more likely that the contestant could win $25,000, then in times of budget overage, the pricing would become more difficult, resulting in fewer punches and taking away most of the fun of the game.

[tpirfansince1972]

My distribution would be, as SuperSweeper previously suggested:

(10) $250
(10) $500
(10) $1000
(10) $2500
(5) $5000
(3) $10,000
(2) $25,000

This is much more in line, especially for the sub-$10K amounts, regarding how much a dollar in 2023 (and hopefully over about the next decade or so) is worth compared to 1979. $250 is one percent of the top prize and begins with the same three digits, so that would be my minimum. Just like during the days when $10,000 was the top prize, there's three slips for the top prize and three for the second highest prize, something that should have been done immediately since the corresponding Big Wheel bonus values were adjusted accordingly. We're back to the classic distribution pattern we had for most of the Barker era. Save the $500 minimum for primetime specials or Big Money weeks.

But $250 is still a viable minimum even when Wheel's minimum value is $500. After all, when the $50 minimum was first established, save for a brief stint on Bob Goen's Wheel, the Punchboard's minimum was half of what Wheel's minimum was at the time, and this would follow suit.

This is exactly and precisely to me my ideal distribution now for Punch!  Great minds think alike!