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Studio 33 - Price is Right Discussion => The TALK Is Right => Topic started by: TPIRfan#9821 on December 09, 2021, 03:57:56 PM

Title: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: TPIRfan#9821 on December 09, 2021, 03:57:56 PM
On today's show, we again had the scenario where the contestant guessed the correct price on the first try for the first four items, leading to a default $25,000. Although it was a cool moment (albeit some of the oomph was taken out because Drew didn't recognized that that could be the final action right away), I felt less excited than if $20k was won on Time is Money or Hot Seat, or $16k on It's In The Bag.

Maybe it's because it's rare for those games to be won very quickly after one another? It took 40 playings for the full $20,000 to be won twice on Time is Money, and 20 playings for Hot Seat. But to counter that, I remember being more shocked when Bag started out this season going 2-0, and a bailout away from 3-0 for the $16k.

Maybe I'm not enjoying this game as much because the game is complicated to grasp, yet in reality, is very forgiving? Reading through the recap thread of TTP's premiere, most of the praise was because of its strategic nature. The only other games that had a lesser level of "strategy" were Barker's Markers, and maybe holding the Ace in the earlier playings of Card Game?

Although the optionality of actions makes it an interesting game from the player's perspective, in my head, there just aren't stakes until the contestant is down to 0 or 1 pennies, and when it gets to that point, the contestant is most likely going to bail out. If the show is going to continue to make the first item a freebie, I don't see how the contestant realistically bails out before spending at least one penny on the $6,000 value either.

Maybe the fact the game is generous isn't a problem. However, compared to other cash games in the same vein, Seat averages about $5,341 given away every playing (adjusting the two Big Money playings to the standard ladder), Time averages $5,226, and Bag averages $3,045 (again, adjusting the one time it was bailed out during BMW to the standard ladder). With the current rules, I don't see how TTP's average drops below $6k. Heck, I can only see one path to losing (the contestant makes it to the $12,000 level with two or pennies left, spends them both (or one and a wrong guess) to eliminate choices, and then whiffs on the 50-50.)

Currently, I feel it's a game that is to complicated to get attached to, but in reality, gives too much avenue for major money to be given away.

I remember when we were speculating how the game was going to be played from various press releases, user gamesurf suggested that maybe the game is played like Duel, where you cover up all the choices you think could be correct. If you don't cover the right choice, the game is over, but if you do, you lose any pennies that are covering wrong choices. I feel that would fix the game for me - the threat of one misstep causing an instant loss makes more sense to the audience, and it still allows for the strategy of playing perfectly the first four GPs instead of getting lucky in a 50-50 guess. I personally would want TTP's rules to be changed to that.

Am I crazy though? Maybe it should be just as easy as Back to '72, and I'm just a scrooge? I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: Hag on December 09, 2021, 04:06:53 PM
I don't mind it as is, but I can see how playing it like Duel would add a dash of suspense to it.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: Roadgeek Adam on December 09, 2021, 04:21:23 PM
I feel like 5 playings is really tough make anything but a small sample size out of. I feel like the end of the season might be a better time to come to this conclusion. The $25,000 perfecto playings definitely lose some drama, but it's the equivalent of Cover when there's 1 number left and the column has only 1 number left.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: vnisanian2001 on December 09, 2021, 04:33:50 PM
Since being introduced, how many times was $25,000 won?
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: SeaBreeze341 on December 09, 2021, 04:53:06 PM
Twice, and it appears that every outright win were ones where the winners played a perfect game.  No successful risk from $12,000 to $25,000 yet
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: PimpinJC on December 09, 2021, 07:41:04 PM
Itís honestly no different than in Lucky $even if the contestant makes it to the last number with at least $5 left.  The contestant has played the game smartly / luckily and is rewarded for it.

Look at it this way: the odds of the contestant getting to the last product being an ďauto winĒ are 1:120.  Thatís certainly worse odds than many of the other cash games on the show.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: LiteBulb88 on December 09, 2021, 09:23:50 PM
I highly doubt we're going to see $25,000 "auto wins" 40% of the time going forward. The first playing was intentionally made easy and the contestant today did really well. I would guess we'll see 1-2 $25k auto wins per season going forward, and I'm OK with that. The one change I'd make is to not allow a contestant to bail out in the middle of a level. For example, if a contestant earns $6,000 and has two pennies left, they'd have to choose if they want to continue for $12,000. If they continue and then make two wrong guesses, they go home with nothing; they would not be given the option to leave with $6,000 after making the first wrong guess.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: JayC on December 09, 2021, 09:57:35 PM
The game does seem a bit too easy right now with two full wins in five playings, but as mentioned they made the first playing really easy and it was just really well played today. They probably weren't expecting anyone to go mistake free or not use any pennies to eliminate wrong prices through the first four levels.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: ooboh on December 09, 2021, 10:09:44 PM
The one change I'd make is to not allow a contestant to bail out in the middle of a level. For example, if a contestant earns $6,000 and has two pennies left, they'd have to choose if they want to continue for $12,000. If they continue and then make two wrong guesses, they go home with nothing; they would not be given the option to leave with $6,000 after making the first wrong guess.

So, basically, the pennies would function like the power chips from Catch 21. I think thatís a great idea.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: Grand_game2004 on December 09, 2021, 11:33:50 PM
I think that playing it like Duel or Catch 21 would really work.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: Wayoshi on December 10, 2021, 11:25:14 AM
The only thought I had yesterday is the last GP has either been hopeless and immediately bailed out or an auto win. I want to see some drama there.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: jcs290 on December 10, 2021, 01:43:46 PM
My similar thoughts from another thread about TtP...

After watching several TtP playings now, if still feels as if something is "off" about it. There are too many elements and feels like a game designed by-committee (which it probably was).

"Let's bring back Penny Ante for Season 50"
"But, let's play it for cash"
"Then we HAVE to add a money tree"
"And an all-or-nothing component"
"How about we let people eliminate a wrong answer, like a lifeline!"
"Yeah, if they're still wrong they can buy another choice...like a lifeline!"

I think this game could work better as a straight game of "spend a penny for every wrong guess; you go broke you lose everything." Reduce to 4 pennies to make the last level no better than a 50/50 shot at the $25K.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: mechamind on December 10, 2021, 02:38:34 PM
I think the rules are good as they are. They'll most likely use more difficult prices next season, anyway.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: tpirfan28 on December 11, 2021, 04:02:27 PM
The glaring problem with the game is how sloggy the end of the game gets with the automatic win.  The fourth price is revealed right (at this point everyone knows the $$$ is won), move to the next item, "hey, you have enough pennies to eliminate all the wrong answers", gives up pennies, reveal correct price.  It's too slow.

Shell and Bonus have the same problem, but the Bonus reveal is instant and Shell has the doubler chance.  If it wasn't a 25K prize I would say that if you got to the final item with all the pennies you got one free guess to double up.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: ooboh on December 12, 2021, 03:00:56 AM
Shell and Bonus have the same problem, but the Bonus reveal is instant and Shell has the doubler chance.  If it wasn't a 25K prize I would say that if you got to the final item with all the pennies you got one free guess to double up.

Honestly, guessing the last price for $50,000 is not something I'd disagree with. Getting to the last item with all five pennies intact will be rare in and of itself (more difficult than it currently looks), so the bonus guess wouldn't even happen all that often. It would reward especially smart shoppers, which is the entire concept of The Price Is Right.

In that case, the question would be, "should the bonus guess be risk-free or for double-or-nothing?"
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: Eddie on December 12, 2021, 09:13:43 AM
I think To The Penny is great.  Those who've watch the show a long time will notice it's played very similar a lot like the original Penny-Ante.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: SeaBreeze341 on December 12, 2021, 10:16:46 AM
Honestly, guessing the last price for $50,000 is not something I'd disagree with. Getting to the last item with all five pennies intact will be rare in and of itself (more difficult than it currently looks), so the bonus guess wouldn't even happen all that often. It would reward especially smart shoppers, which is the entire concept of The Price Is Right.

In that case, the question would be, "should the bonus guess be risk-free or for double-or-nothing?"


It would have to be risk-free, unless they risked $25,000 for $100,000.  Still, I hardly think anyone's saying no thanks to $25,000 for $50,000.  On the other hand, if they had more than one chance to guess the final price, I could see someone going for it.

I think I completely agree with Eddie about TTP being somewhat similar to Penny Ante.  Not something you'd think about often, but the connection is definitely there
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: StacksOfCash on December 20, 2021, 06:09:38 PM
As it stands now, I don't see any point in using pennies other than to recover turns from wrong guesses. You rarely ever see contestants spend pennies to eliminate wrong answers, and most of the time its only one they choose to eliminate before guessing. Then when a contestant has 2 pennies left, they will force a guess, and if it's wrong, recover themselves and predictably and rather boringly bail out.

This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but I see two ways of getting around this.

1) One wrong guess and you lose everything. This will force players to strategize more about when to spend their pennies - sometimes deciding to spend more than just one to maximize their chances when making a guess.

2) Only allow bailouts when a contestant guesses a correct price - meaning if you choose to go on, you must continue until you get the price right or run out of pennies.

Perfect playings will still rightly allow the player to automatically skip the last price and win.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: monomandan on January 05, 2022, 02:10:00 PM
I really enjoy this game, and I think it's less complicated than it appears. I agree that there's not a real incentive to spend the single pennies until the end at this point, though - I'm curious to see how/if the show adjusts gameplay.

It could be worthwhile to consider making buying back in more costly - say, 3 pennies, so you can only do it once. And I'd fully support only allowing a bailout after a correct pick.

I like the similarities to Penny Ante - it provides a little nostalgia for longtime fans while being a very modern game.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: SteveGavazzi on January 05, 2022, 05:40:38 PM
Forget the discussion -- I'm just amazed to see someone post for the first time in 15 years!

Welcome back to the fold, Dan.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: brosa0 on January 24, 2022, 04:09:08 PM
I remember when we were speculating how the game was going to be played from various press releases, user gamesurf suggested that maybe the game is played like Duel, where you cover up all the choices you think could be correct. If you don't cover the right choice, the game is over, but if you do, you lose any pennies that are covering wrong choices.

This would help solve my biggest issue with the game, namely that the contestant can spend 1 penny to remove a price, but the producers are the ones in control of which price is removed, so spending a penny may not help at all.   For example, if the range is 0.99 to $5.99 and the item is clearly around $4-5.99, I'd feel a bit ripped off if I spent a penny only for the 0.99 option to be removed.

Having that Duel-like gameplay to have the option to cover up potential prices would solve this, as it would mean the contestant is fully in control of how their pennies are spent and how useful they are to them.   If a contestant chose to auto-win their way to the $6000 step by covering all of the options in the first two steps, they'd spend 3 pennies on incorrect options and be left with two pennies for a potential 50-50 play at the $6000 step, which I think is reasonable given it's a similar amount to what is won on normal pricing games.

I would keep the 2 (or maybe even 3) pennies cost for an incorrect choice though, so the game can't end on the $1000 step.

I agree with the bailout options being an issue.   Perhaps it would work better by removing the bailout option altogether and only having the $6000 and $25000 values on the board as 'safe levels'.  The $1000, $3000 and $12000 values would be removed and just be steps between the safe levels.   I don't think every game has to have bailout options for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: StacksOfCash on January 24, 2022, 07:06:31 PM
The way I see it, bailouts are probably the least exciting thing a contestant could do to end the game. Losses are substantially more exciting than bailouts.

It's probably part of the reason why I think Step Up was one of the most boring games to watch, because contestants would often pick 2 prizes then bail.

When temptation was giving almost 6-8k in prizes for a while, the prizes alone were worth so much the game devolved to - do nothing and win prizes - for a while.

The lack of a bailout option is essentially what keeps Triple Play exciting. Imagine if you could bail out with one or two cars.  You'd practically never see the 3rd car being played for.

I think a couple of other games could use a bit of tweaking as well (though i'm sure many would disagree):

For Let' Em Roll, I would make the last roll - must win the car or win nothing. This way there would be at least some excitement and a chance that the player will actually walk away with nothing as opposed to at least $500.

In Punch-A-Bunch, I would let the contestant play for one punch at a time. Then after the punch and the money amount is revealed, the contestant can choose to keep the money or risk it by throwing it away, but needs to guess the higher/lower of a small prize. If they guess wrong, and run out of prizes, the contestant leaves with nothing.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: blozier2006 on January 24, 2022, 07:36:25 PM
In Punch-A-Bunch, I would let the contestant play for one punch at a time. Then after the punch and the money amount is revealed, the contestant can choose to keep the money or risk it by throwing it away, but needs to guess the higher/lower of a small prize. If they guess wrong, and run out of prizes, the contestant leaves with nothing.
Those were the original rules when the game debuted in 1978 (along with a more confusing way of determining how much a punch was worth). There's a reason that ruleset was junked.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: pannoni1 on January 25, 2022, 09:18:42 AM
The $1000 level is really pointless, since its basically impossible to bailout at that stage since the least you can have is three pennies going into $3000, and then after blowing the first guess at that level with one penny left, either spend the last penny to assure $3000 (and presumably bail), or take the 50/50 guess and either win $3000 (and possibly continue) or end up with nothing. It would be better if there were four choices at each level, much like classic Penny Ante. A certain other game show always had four choices at each level without the gimmick of few choices during the cakewalk questions and six choices at the levels where the studio audience is completely dark. It makes it tough to end up with a base bank, but with not quite as many options at the upper levels, even with few or no pennies remaining, makes going for it more tempting. I doubt most people would spend three pennies to guarantee $1000 and spend two more for a 50/50 shot at $3000 like they could already do for $6000.


For Let' Em Roll, I would make the last roll - must win the car or win nothing. This way there would be at least some excitement and a chance that the player will actually walk away with nothing as opposed to at least $500.

With this, I wouldn't mind if they redesigned cubes be redesigned to allow the cash amounts to become $0's on the final roll, or simply make alternate cubes where Drew takes out the original remaining cubes and replaces them with cubes with $0's on them. It also means that if you blow the GP portion, it's very difficult to win, and pricing is what really matters.


Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: Chris88 on January 25, 2022, 09:26:09 AM
The way I see it, bailouts are probably the least exciting thing a contestant could do to end the game. Losses are substantially more exciting than bailouts.

It's probably part of the reason why I think Step Up was one of the most boring games to watch, because contestants would often pick 2 prizes then bail.

When temptation was giving almost 6-8k in prizes for a while, the prizes alone were worth so much the game devolved to - do nothing and win prizes - for a while.

The lack of a bailout option is essentially what keeps Triple Play exciting. Imagine if you could bail out with one or two cars.  You'd practically never see the 3rd car being played for.

I think a couple of other games could use a bit of tweaking as well (though i'm sure many would disagree):

For Let' Em Roll, I would make the last roll - must win the car or win nothing. This way there would be at least some excitement and a chance that the player will actually walk away with nothing as opposed to at least $500.

In Punch-A-Bunch, I would let the contestant play for one punch at a time. Then after the punch and the money amount is revealed, the contestant can choose to keep the money or risk it by throwing it away, but needs to guess the higher/lower of a small prize. If they guess wrong, and run out of prizes, the contestant leaves with nothing.
No!!!! The way the games the games are right Now are good as they are!!!!!
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: mechamind on January 25, 2022, 10:47:20 AM
For Let' Em Roll, I would make the last roll - must win the car or win nothing. This way there would be at least some excitement and a chance that the player will actually walk away with nothing as opposed to at least $500.

This would create a problem if the contestant only gets 1 roll. How could you announce to the contestant right off the bat that the cash values don't count? Besides, with 2 or 3 rolls, there's usually going to be a pretty big difference between the value of the final roll and the price of the car.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: imhomerjay on January 25, 2022, 11:53:24 AM
If anything, creating more situations where playing the pricing portion correctly still leaves you with a good chance of nothing is the wrong way to go. Of course some of those exist, but not seeing how it benefits the viewership to create another one.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: gamesurf on January 25, 2022, 03:10:12 PM
Losses are substantially more exciting than bailouts.

Agree, to a point. Would probably disagree on "substantially". I think you have a point regarding Step Up though.

For Let' Em Roll, I would make the last roll - must win the car or win nothing. This way there would be at least some excitement and a chance that the player will actually walk away with nothing as opposed to at least $500.

1. This increases people's incentive to bail on the second-to-last roll. You'd see more people bailing early in Let 'em Roll, not less.

2. I don't think "no car and $0" is that much more exciting of a final outcome than "no car but $500". It's still easy to recognize that a $500-$1,500 win is the bad outcome compared to a car.

In Punch-A-Bunch, I would let the contestant play for one punch at a time. Then after the punch and the money amount is revealed, the contestant can choose to keep the money or risk it by throwing it away, but needs to guess the higher/lower of a small prize. If they guess wrong, and run out of prizes, the contestant leaves with nothing.

Same deal. The fun part of the game isn't the pricing portion, it's the punching and the host revealing the slips. You don't want the game to end on the pricing portion.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: Josh444 on January 25, 2022, 04:19:32 PM

1. This increases people's incentive to bail on the second-to-last roll. You'd see more people bailing early in Let 'em Roll, not less.

2. I don't think "no car and $0" is that much more exciting of a final outcome than "no car but $500". It's still easy to recognize that a $500-$1,500 win is the bad outcome compared to a car.

For LER, what if they changed the values of the cubes to be: 2 Cars, 2 $1,000, 2 X ($0). Then it wouldnít be a guaranteed $500 for just playing, and the stakes would certainly be raised on that final roll. The guaranteed $500 doesnít sit well for me. At least with Plinko there is the chance (as has been seen before) to win $0. Rare, but it happens.

To the Penny absolutely needs to be locked on each level. If you decide to play on, you canít bail out.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: gamesurf on January 25, 2022, 04:34:19 PM
For LER, what if they changed the values of the cubes to be: 2 Cars, 2 $1,000, 2 X ($0). Then it wouldnít be a guaranteed $500 for just playing, and the stakes would certainly be raised on that final roll. The guaranteed $500 doesnít sit well for me. At least with Plinko there is the chance (as has been seen before) to win $0. Rare, but it happens.

Let 'Em Roll currently has about a 40% win rate, in line with most other car games. Getting rid of 1/3 of all the car cubes would drive the win rate down significantly. I'm sure somebody else could do the math, but I would estimate easily below Lucky Seven, which is something like a 29% win rate.

I could see the argument of "oh, what about three cars and $0/$1000/$1500 on the cubes" having some merit.  But, again, I don't think it's that big of a deal. $500 and no car isn't that big a deviation from $0 and no car. There's still something big at stake, it's still easy for viewers to be disappointed the contestant got the bad outcome.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: mechamind on January 25, 2022, 05:09:28 PM
I could see the argument of "oh, what about three cars and $0/$1000/$1500 on the cubes" having some merit.

$0, $1000, $2000 would be more presentable. $0, $750, $1500 is evenly spaced but looks cheap compared to $500, $1000, $1500.
Title: Re: Currently, what are your thoughts on To The Penny? [Spoilers for 12/9/2021 Show]
Post by: StacksOfCash on January 31, 2022, 05:36:20 PM
1. This increases people's incentive to bail on the second-to-last roll. You'd see more people bailing early in Let 'em Roll, not less.

On paper this would be the case, but at the same time, it's rare to see people bail in Spelling Bee, even with 1 card remaining and only one letter.

For LER, what if they changed the values of the cubes to be: 2 Cars, 2 $1,000, 2 X ($0). Then it wouldnít be a guaranteed $500 for just playing, and the stakes would certainly be raised on that final roll. The guaranteed $500 doesnít sit well for me. At least with Plinko there is the chance (as has been seen before) to win $0. Rare, but it happens.

What could also happen is that instead of monetary values on the cubes, they are replaced with dollar signs. Then the value of the cubes can be proportional to how many rolls the contestant has remaining.

So if a contestant gets all 3 rolls, for the first roll all the $$ are worth $1000. For the 2nd roll, all the $$ are worth $500, and for the last roll the $$ are worth $0.
Diminishing returns the more you play, but for the 2nd last roll, the value won is low enough that the contestant is encouraged to just keep rolling for the car - similar to how in grand game, the $1000 bail is never worth it for the returns you get on winning.

If the contestant gets only 2 rolls, then cash the amounts start at $500.

If the contestant gets all prizes wrong, then I think having the $$ start at $0 is an appropriate "punishment", though they technically still have a chance to win the car.