Wheel and Jeopardy Return

[gamesurf]

They didn't put the Triple Toss-Up in just for the sake of having more toss-ups. I believe the Triple Toss-Up began as a way to allow a trailing contestant to make up ground heading into round 4. The Prize Puzzle winner typically being the big winner is another issue, but the Triple Toss-Up helps by giving a contestant a chance to catch up by solving 2 or 3 of them.

My issue with it is that it eats even further away at the actual rounds, which already seemed to be strapped for time before the TTU was added.

Heck, if they ditched the final spin completely and just replaced the fourth round with with a final speed round of tossups, like, $1K/$2K/$3K/$4K/$5K, that might not be a terrible way to end the game. I just think doing both is too much.

[blozier2006]

My issue with it is that it eats even further away at the actual rounds, which already seemed to be strapped for time before the TTU was added.

Knowing Harry, that's probably why he added the TTU, to exacerbate the time problem, and thus further assure that the Final Spin will, 95% of the time, come on the first spin of the round (where Pat is least likely to hit the $5,000).

[RatRace10]

Knowing Harry, that's probably why he added the TTU, to exacerbate the time problem, and thus further assure that the Final Spin will, 95% of the time, come on the first spin of the round (where Pat is least likely to hit the $5,000).

And am I the only one who noticed over the past couple of years that the Toss-Up puzzles are longer than they used to be? Like, they'll be four or five words and take up practically the whole middle two rows of the board. Like, in older seasons they have done "BASEBALL GAME", but today they would do "GOING TO A BASEBALL GAME".

[wheelfan1991]

I think I am echoing a previous post here, but with J!, there's not much else you can do to the show other than changing the look every few years. J! is straightforward and no-nonsene gameplay and always has been. The only other thing they could do would be increase the dollar values on the board. And, in reality, there's no sense in doing that. $200 in 2001 is equal to around $293 and change today (46.8% inflation rate). The addition of the Clue Crew and the allowing champions to keep coming back as long as they win along with the dollar figure change in 2001 is really the only thing gameplay wise they have altered and they really can't do anything else. Everything else is visual and audible. But that has worked well for them, as you can see.

I have to say that I've always been a bit miffed that J! gets a longer season and more attention than Wheel. Harry seemed to always have a special love for J! and put emphasis on it, especially over the summer digging in to the vaults and bringing back old shows, (I'm assuming he had something to do with this on his way out?) or having a primetime stint on ABC. I know legally speaking it's "harder" for Wheel to dig in the vaults because of royalties for the music used over the years. I am not sure what kind of deal J! has with Merv's estate by keeping the same theme from the get go and just updating it every few years, but it would be nice if Wheel had the same agreement. Granted, Wheel uses a lot more music/cues than J! ever has because of prizes, location shoots, etc. and that may be why they don't have that kind of deal because the royalties on the music packages may be astronomical. I don't know how the legality of all of it breaks down. But, the original Changing Keys is still iconic for Wheel after all these years. Heck, they still use it for their Wheelmobile stops! Also, I think it would be kind of fun if they did a primetime stint where it was tournament style and they have celebrities play for charities. If marketed the right way, it might draw in quite the number of viewers. I don't think Wheel has had an all celebrity game since Halloween 2000, if I am remembering correctly.

Of course, one could say that J! and Wheel cater to two different groups of people. Just peruse Twitter for a few moments and you will see what I mean. A lot of people think that Wheel is a game for simpletons, fools, and "old people." It's the butt of many jokes for them. While there are some, such as myself, who enjoy both programs, there are those who love one or the other, and I think Harry took that in to play a lot. Do I think Wheel could use some changing and freshining up? Absolutely! And not just visually. Besides a revamped set, puzzles more aligned with today's culture would be awesome. Trips are nice, but so are electronic packages, shopping sprees, RVs, and boats. No, I don't think we need to regress back to shopping, but varying the prize pool would be a great place to start. Varying the dollar amounts on the Wheel would be nice, too.

But, one thing to understand is - this is Mike's first season for both shows. We all remember how it went when he started at Price 12 years ago: he went in and made drastic changes almost overnight and the Price fan community was ready to burn him at the stake! Maybe he used that as a learning experience and has decided to make gradual changes to each show. He's still getting his feet wet, and with COVID, this is a much different scenario that he could have ever expected to have to tackle. Give him time. Who knows? He might have some surprises up his sleeve as the season rolls on. We are only at the end of Week 1. Be patient and hope for the best.

[imhomerjay]

Regarding "more attention" to Jeopardy, that strikes me as not the reality. Look, the primetime ABC specials were about capitalizing on a lightning-in-a-bottle moment with James. It created a perfect "third" legend. That doesn't exist with Wheel and never would, regardless of returning champions, because the game is more fundamentally luck based.

They're simply two different programs, and there is no obligation on the producers' part to act as if they're equal human children. It's all a business. (And that sets aside that there is a Wheel promo every single day leading into Jeopardy on my station--Wheel gets plenty of attention and promotion.) If Jeopardy is doing better, that's simply the way it is. This isn't going to be "Now, Johnny, we all saw your project, now it's Sally's turn." It's a, uh, game of numbers.

Jeopardy is also in a strong position to be able to constantly have new material building its library of questions, er, answers. They have always had current alongside the historical, and that continues, so it tends to feel fresher. Wheel is challenged in that regard. Common phrases and places and things don't change that much, so yes, this many years in, they're scraping pretty low sometimes to come up with puzzles--and it shows. I still think if you could freshen up other elements with a significant overhaul (even over a period of years, like Price), you might be able to somewhat mask that shortcoming, but as things currently stand, it is one of many pieces that feel dated.

[pricefan18]

Regarding "more attention" to Jeopardy, that strikes me as not the reality. Look, the primetime ABC specials were about capitalizing on a lightning-in-a-bottle moment with James. It created a perfect "third" legend. That doesn't exist with Wheel and never would, regardless of returning champions, because the game is more fundamentally luck based.

They're simply two different programs, and there is no obligation on the producers' part to act as if they're equal human children. It's all a business. (And that sets aside that there is a Wheel promo every single day leading into Jeopardy on my station--Wheel gets plenty of attention and promotion.) If Jeopardy is doing better, that's simply the way it is. This isn't going to be "Now, Johnny, we all saw your project, now it's Sally's turn." It's a, uh, game of numbers.

Jeopardy is also in a strong position to be able to constantly have new material building its library of questions, er, answers. They have always had current alongside the historical, and that continues, so it tends to feel fresher. Wheel is challenged in that regard. Common phrases and places and things don't change that much, so yes, this many years in, they're scraping pretty low sometimes to come up with puzzles--and it shows. I still think if you could freshen up other elements with a significant overhaul (even over a period of years, like Price), you might be able to somewhat mask that shortcoming, but as things currently stand, it is one of many pieces that feel dated.

There's also the fact that with returning champions always taking much more prominence with J! than Wheel, it made idea of doing longer seasons not only more appealing but just more sensible, since doing reruns would be a bit more challenging for it vs. its' sister show. I feel that played into the decision to extend it after Season 1 as much as anything, even with only the single TOC tournament (I believe? Someone can correct me if I am wrong, I don't think the College tournament or Seniors Tournament was a thing then yet, I know the Teen one wasn't at least till Season 3) that they could use for at least 2 weeks of them. Then of course as more tournaments became the standard from there, it was much easier to slot them out without having to run any regular games.

I have wondered incidentally this year, if they may try and go straight through from Season 37 to 38 without any reruns at all if they can possibly do it, both with having to cut 36 short by 40 games due to COVID and more than likely not being able to run any tournaments for the same reason. I could see them at least thinking about it.

[imhomerjay]

Honestly I wouldn’t be considering the extra cost if I were them. If they started on time, absolutely no one (excluding some people with way too much time on their hands) is going to be thinking come next summer, “Hey, they shorted us a bunch of shows last year.” They’re just not.

Homes using television/HUT levels drop off precipitously in the dog days of summer. The ad revenue isn’t going to offset the costs of adding “make up” shows.

Honestly, the focus should be on contingency planning for which reruns go on should there be a shutdown for whatever reason that ultimately prevents them from airing without a break. Hope you don’t need it, but have the plan ready.

[wheelfan1991]

Wheel nixed the returning champs simply because with Wheel, it's not about the best player winning. It's about luck. The best player could be knocked out of the top spot in the last round simply by Pat hitting $5000 in the final spin and a player with 0 could jump to $18k (or more) with one letter, solve, and win. With J!, it's almost all about the best player winning the game, and that's what sense for them to have a returning champ. I think it would be neat if Wheel brought back the best players of the season for a tournament of sorts (a la Some of the Greats week from the mid 90s) and let them play for charity. It may sound "gimmick-y" but it could attract potentially more viewers. Wheel hasn't had the top spot in the Neilsen ratings in quite a while, a spot it used to hold easily (granted it still has a slight lead over J! as of Aug. 31). Feud is beating Wheel followed by Judge Judy holding the number one spot. I find it shocking that sexual innuendos, double entendres, and Steve Harvey's over the top dramatics for said answers beat out Wheel (and J! for that matter). Wheel doesn't have to stoop to that level. In fact, if they did, they'd probably sink themselves. But, it's going to take more than mobile app sponsored sweepstakes to knock the staleness off game show giant.

[gamesurf]

Wheel nixed the returning champs simply because with Wheel, it's not about the best player winning. It's about luck. The best player could be knocked out of the top spot in the last round simply by Pat hitting $5000 in the final spin and a player with 0 could jump to $18k (or more) with one letter, solve, and win.

Valid points all, Wheel has obviously has worked fine as a one-and-done show for decades. I get the reasoning behind it.

But it's something to shake the doldrums out of it. If a contestant is likable, and they win, I have one more reason to tune in tomorrow.

And it offers a chance to mask cuts to the prize budget. You don't have to offer massive gobs of cash in the bonus round every single time if you know the winner is going to come back tomorrow for a chance to try again.

[SeaBreeze341]

Feud is beating Wheel followed by Judge Judy holding the number one spot. I find it shocking that sexual innuendos, double entendres, and Steve Harvey's over the top dramatics for said answers beat out Wheel (and J! for that matter). Wheel doesn't have to stoop to that level.

You know, I tend not to laugh at my own thoughts/comments/jokes as if I were doing stand up, but it's difficult without cracking up to picture what Wheel of Fortune (and even Jeopardy) would be like if Steve Harvey hosted.

Say what you will, but the Harvey era of Family Feud beating Wheel gives it bragging rights given the latter pretty much took out the original version nearly 4 decades prior.  Not a big deal really; as mentioned, with people at home watching more TV, including a lot of reruns, it did help Feud over Wheel.

Valid points all, Wheel has obviously has worked fine as a one-and-done show for decades. I get the reasoning behind it.

But it's something to shake the doldrums out of it. If a contestant is likable, and they win, I have one more reason to tune in tomorrow.

And it offers a chance to mask cuts to the prize budget. You don't have to offer massive gobs of cash in the bonus round every single time if you know the winner is going to come back tomorrow for a chance to try again.

I may have been somewhat critical about my comments on returning champions earlier this week, but it wouldn't hurt for this to be reinstated.  If Wheel were to go back to returning champions, what would be a recommended limit, if any?

Maybe make it like Hollywood Squares where you returned until you lost or if you won the big prize (with better odds each time you won the main game), whichever comes first

[imhomerjay]

Always worth remembering Feud counts as a double run.

[pricefan18]

I may have been somewhat critical about my comments on returning champions earlier this week, but it wouldn't hurt for this to be reinstated.  If Wheel were to go back to returning champions, what would be a recommended limit, if any?

Maybe make it like Hollywood Squares where you returned until you lost or if you won the big prize (with better odds each time you won the main game), whichever comes first

Well what you could do is....since the Million Dollar Wedge is in play anyway, have the limit be either till they won the Million (with say an added space on the bonus wheel each show they won should they get there with it), or till they surpassed it in normal winnings, whichever came first. That'd add a lot more intrigue regularly than just having the possibility of a random person winning it every night. You'd also have the potential for some super huge winners the more they won, ala Jeopardy. I actually think it could have been a good idea to do from when they first introduced it.

And come to think of it too, with the travel limitations now, everyone being local for time being coulda been a good time to implement such a thing to cut down on the need for new contestants. Kinda surprised an idea wasn't thought about, be it that one or others.

[RatRace10]

Always worth remembering Feud counts as a double run.

Feud airs SIX times a day in syndication alone where I live. Used to be four, but they added two more last month. Judge Judy also airs four times a day where I live. Jeopardy! airs twice, and Wheel of Fortune only airs once.

[imhomerjay]

Yes but to my latest knowledge the national averages count a double run for Feud. In any event, the deck is skewed.

[urbanpreppie0004]

Here's what i would do...

Intro
Pat and Vanna Walk out
Contestant intros
$1K Toss Up Round
1st round, TDV- $2K (prize varies each day)
2nd round, TDV-$3K+ $1K
3rd round, TDV-$4K+ $1K and $1500
$2K Toss Up round
4th round, TDV- $5K+ $2K and $3k
Bonus round
End

1st round- is different every day. Prize Round, Express, Jackpot on rotation.
Bonus round- Starts off with a flat $30K in cash for most of the envelopes, but there's also cars, Dream vacations, extreme shopping sprees (40K, 10K at 4 different stores) and cash amounts in 40, 45, 50, 55, and 60K. 100/1M still available.
Vowels are now $500